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/yndd/ - Yume Nikki - Dream Diary

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File: 1519895957539.jpg (333.62 KB, 1280x720, 20180228194026_1.jpg)

 No.2151

*MAJOR SPOILERS*
(Part 1/4, rest is the first couple replies)

-So I never pulled this much from the original game, but in this reimagining I am pretty sure there are strong themes here of gender identity. I know many people have joked about this theory before, but I think there's actual evidence here. The only bathrooms Madotsuki ever enters in YYDD are men's restrooms. To get the secret ending (and to finish the game) you have to activate the symbol of Venus aka the symbol representing female, and then enter into a giant Venus symbol to enter. In the sketchbook there's two pictures you get of Madotsuki that are practically the same, but one with her eyes closed and one with them open. Most related pictures are next to each other in her Dream Diary, but for this one a picture of her eyes closed are next to KyuuKyuu-kun, and her picture of her eyes open is a few pages later next to the picture of the feminine mannequin. Literally eyes closed next to the most phallic character in the game, eyes opened next to the character most with a 'female form'. Add to this the area you get the flute in the mall looks even more like a clinic than the original, and to add to this O-Man's updated look looks a lot more like a doctor, there's character's alluding to genitalia-esque objects on the walls, and E-Man who you go to see in the clinic gives you the Flute. I don't know quite yet on this one if I'm reaching here, but all I'll say is I never got this theory in the original but have it pretty strongly in YNDD.

-I'm going to cover this more in the following points, but I think Madotsuki is a shut-off NEET not because she was raped (I don't think there's evidence for that) or even because of gender identity things. I think it's more straight forward, she experienced multiple scars over the years that made her more reclusive and eventually just shut off from the world. Rather than one traumatic event she experienced several over-time events that made her close off. This also ties in well to unlocking the final door by re-experiencing everything and then when you go out of your apartment having to survive your inner fears (that shadow thing) to get the happy ending.

-Monoko is dead. In the original game the stop/start light changing her form was a bit suspicious and the specifics of the differences, but this remake somewhat spells it out where you can reach her by going to the world end event related to death to find her, and when we see her more twisted form she gets surrounded by blue flames (if you don't know, in Japan blue flames are associated with death and spirits). Also would explain why her form in the remake is so underplayed to Monoe and hidden away. This one I don't think many would disagree with as it's kind of blatant. Monoko's area achievement is also titled, "Doomed", and the description for this is that you played with a 'lonely child'.

-I know many people theorize that Monoko and Monoe are sisters (and for obvious reasons to suspect this), but I don't think Monoe is crying over a dead sister from the evidence. I'm more inclined to believe the black and white similarities have more to do with 'ex-friends', they're just memories to Madotsuki now. Monoko died at some point, probably when Madotsuki was young. If you look at the recently released Yume Nikki character height comparision chart, Monoko is considerably shorter than either Madotsuki or Monoe. I think she died while Madotsuki was of a similar age. I also am wondering if hide and seek had something to do with her death? In the original game she's hiding in the middle of nowhere, and in the remake she plays hide and seek with you until you find her in her twisted blue-flame form. I'm wondering if she died playing some children's game like hide'n'seek?

 No.2152

>>2151
(2/4)
-Monoe experienced something traumatic and Madostuki failed to help her. The picture you collect fragments for are of someone following Monoe, it's not a voluntary picture. Monoe will not let you get close to her, implying that she both doesn't want to be touched and wants Madotsuki to stay away. Eventually when you keep following her you get to the place with a wall made of a giant zipper (like you see on the front of pants) which keeps bulging and un-bulging. You unzip the zipper and inside you find KyuuKyuu-kun rubbing the pole vigorously right next to Monoe, who is crying. When you approach her, Madotsuki begins crying too. To the right of the Lantern event you can find Madotsuki in a drawer crying (and you get a picture of Madotsuki's umbrella power when you do this, which notably is how you begin to get Monoe running away from you… Madotsuki's tears). If you come back to the KyuuKyuu-kun location after beating the area, you get the FACE event, which is well documented in how sexual it is combined with being next to KyuuKyuu-kun. I'm not going to cement saying I believe she was raped, but I think it's hard to doubt there's something sexual going on here with Monoe but she seemed upset at Madotsuki for getting in her business, and Madotsuki seems to not forgive herself for not being able to help her. I think they no longer are friends but once were, which is why Madotsuki seems to care about her and why Monoe has a violent reaction to Madotsuki. I also will add the achievement for hitting this story of Madotsuki and Monoe crying with Kyuukuu-kun rubbing above Monoe is titled "Deep Dream", with the description, "Too young for this".

-Poniko is the other friend of Madotsuki. I know many think with the balloon things that it signifies Poniko was raped or something, but I think the idea is more those are lost balloons that have drifted to Poniko. Madotsuki was drifting (like she literally does in the level) through her life and ultimately floats over to Poniko. Poniko isn't greyed out like the others since she's a current 'friend', also implying this is later than several of the other events (which also may explain why Madotsuki was 'drifting' while trying to deal with her past). But Poniko doesn't actually seem to like Madostuki that much, we see her in her room drawing (which implies we've been to her room sometime in the past). When you approach her she covers up what she's doing like she doesn't want you to see (but there is a drawing on the wall). The only thing you can really do with her is annoy her, represented here by turning the lights on and off. When you do that enough and bother her enough Poniko 'screams' and turns into Uboa. I think Madotsuki IS friends with Poniko, but Poniko finds Madotsuki super annoying and Madotsuki is afraid of annoying/upsetting her and has seen her scary side behind closed doors. The achievement for this area is also "False Appearances", but to mention it's also noteworthy details of her room changes in light and dark which might also hint at Poniko being two-faced.

-Now I don't think Madotsuki is a literal murderer. In the original game Shitai-san gives you the stoplight effect (also tying that in the original to death), which lets you stop other people and shows Monoko as dead. I think Shitai-san is the 'trigger' that lets off everything Madotsuki had stored away to explode into full-blown depression and fear. Shitai-san evidently died in a traffic accident, and it seems Madostuki views that she killed him. Maybe he was depressed or she could've done something to stop him or change things, but I think she holds herself as responsible for not being able to save him. I will admit something though, I do not have any idea why Onsen-san is connected to Shitai-san. Frankly while I guess traffic accident and I'm pretty sure I'm right about Madotsuki's feelings and place here, the exact details of Shintai-san and Onsen-san I feel have more to be read into. When you finish this area, you get an achievement titled, "Remorse", which has the description, "Why did you do it?". Maybe Madotsuki pushed this man to a point he died (maybe either via something foolish and an accident or suicide), and Madotsuki greatly regrets it?

 No.2153

>>2152
>>2151
(3/4)

-This one is really obvious since the original, but Madotsuki has some interest in ancient culture and the occult. It's littered over both games, but one of the 'big events' in this game is Madotsuki seeing the UFO with people over the city, and next to that is the pure white flower field. In the original game this leads to the area Madotsuki gets the ghost power by chasing the singular ghost, but white flowers do mean purity among other things. I think Madotsuki may have been embarrassed by her love of these things, viewing it as geeky or something she has to hide away from others to protect herself but is precious to her. Her interest of the occult may also have sprung from her early life exposure to death, which might be another meaning of the field of flowers linking to the ghost power in the original.

-The mall event with the mannequins new to this remake I'm pretty sure is related to my original point, Madotsuki's desire to live up to the image of being a woman. The mannequins are intimidating to her and notably all of them strike feminine poses. They can't get Madotsuki when she's in the light but can when she's in darkness, and the area ends when she passes by several mannequins on pedestals and then gets into her bed with all of these mannequins suddenly surrounding her. I take this as Madotsuki's fear of being judged, I think she wants to appease to the image of a woman but is also intimidated by it. I don't think this is uncommon for those overcoming walls for their own gender identity or even simply body image, and just even the general fear of people talking behind your back or being two-faced with you. I think this area represents that part for why she closes off from the judgement (or perceived judgement) of others. When you complete this area you also get the achievement, "Distrust".

-This one is the most obvious, but the beginning is her contemplating suicide. The thought of going outside again makes her want to kill herself. The game has her tackling the big areas in her life that's made her a shut-in, and ultimately overcoming her own fear to go outside again.

-The secret ending with Seccom Masada-sensei deliberately says in the achievements that she stays in her dream as it's cozy. It does point that there was a figure in Madotsuki's life she found comfort in. Going by the original game and YNDD, something happened where they parted ways. In the original the spaceship crashes, and in the remake her being tempted to stay in this place because he's here would imply she can't just go see him anymore. I am thinking that Seccom Masada-sensei probably moved away, represented in her dream as him on a spaceship going to Mars. Their relationship didn't end badly like many others, just he's too far away to reach now.



Of course, this is all just my own theories, but what do y'all think?

 No.2154

(4/4)
(I originally was worried it wouldn't all fit in the third post, but I cut some and managed it, so sorry for the long post here, just had to deal with the body character limit. Hopefully my theory dumb or not is interesting enough.)

 No.2155

>>2154
go back to tumblr fuckboi

 No.2158

Madotsuki has a car!
She goes real far!
In her funny car!

 No.2162

File: 1519923500630.jpg (72.4 KB, 392x524, SekienHitodama.jpg)

White lilies are also associated with funerals and death, the reason why it was in the original Yume Nikki and how it connected with the cyclops ghost. Many of the areas are just remakes from the original (i.e. O-man and E-man office) so it just feels like things they carried from the old game to the new one without thinking too much, so I don't really feel like there is any point in including them into theories.

I don't even understand why people think the sperm looking things floating over Poniko's house are ballons, it's obvious they're hitodama (you know, like Youmu). I'm surprised nobody associated the lighthouse that kills you with poniko's house (they both have hitodama flying around).

Madotsuki can access the three お手洗い that exist in the school (with no sex distinction whatsoever), so they may as well be intersex for all we know.

 No.2165

File: 1519929809687.png (27.46 KB, 430x450, uboa's hips don't lie.png)

>>2155
>>2158

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hb0vNPy6YV0


>>2151

TL;DR warning

I'm not a big fan of the transgender theory, but your interpretation of it is decent. The borderline sexual and phallic imagery seen throughout certain worlds is the biggest evidence, though it applies to both genders.

As >>2162 mentioned, Madotsuki could be intersex. There are male and female bathrooms in the original game, and Mado can use both if the player chooses. A majority of the NPCs in her dreams appear to be masculine or lack tertiary sex characteristics, but there are female characters as well. It’s entirely plausible that she might be a hermaphrodite.

However, I believe that Mado identifies as female. She presents herself as such, wearing pink clothes and braiding her hair. There is also arguably more of a direct focus on feminine/negative imagery. For example, the henkei shita monsters resemble headless pregnant women. The floyag look like uteruses and give Mado unwanted attention. And Uboa looks like hips as much as it looks like a face (pic related). Additionally, a lot of NPCs with significant scenes are female. Poniko turns into Uboa, trapping Mado in a closed-off room she cannot escape. Monoe and Monoko are distant, with the former disappearing and the latter turning into a monster. And the toriningen are antagonistic towards Madotsuki, chasing her down should she anger them. Put together, these may represent Mado’s experiences with women. Rejecting, antagonizing, or outright avoiding her.

This can be interpreted in multiple ways. If Madotsuki is a trans girl, then it could mean that she is put down for her identity and that she feels she will never be accepted as a “real” woman. If Mado is a trans boy, then noone accepts him as male and he dresses as a girl to insult himself. Either way, this is a person who has an implied fixation with things like sex and gender, and it’s (presumably) more detrimental than healthy.

(Will continue this later. I wanted to focus on the first part of the theory)

 No.2166

>>2165
I meant the restrooms are intersex, not her.

 No.2167

>>2165
Rick & Morty YouTube clips

 No.2169

File: 1519931111358.jpg (Spoiler Image, 129.23 KB, 600x605, YumeNikkki.jpg)

>>2165
>>2166
Does Yume Nikki have cock?? I think Yume Nikki might have cock, I want to talk about Yume Nikki's genitals.

Yume Nikki transgender??? Yeah now that's where it is at!!!

 No.2170

>>2151
kill yorself

didnt read btw

 No.2172

I know it's funny and meme-y but Yume Nikki predates the gender identity crisis of the 2010's

 No.2175

You can interpret anything you want where ever you want. Anyway, transsexuals are largely irrelevant despite everything obsessing over them and the idea of gender identity is the moronic conception of a deranged scientist(John Money) who experimented on children. Both of his test patients committed suicide in their adulthood. Frankly, the word gender should be removed from the dictionary. The proper word is sex, faggots.
Where you belong:
https://www.fanfiction.net/

 No.2176

Interesting read, and a well-formed set of ideas. You have a talent for persuasive writing, and you have been paying attention to what you are talking about. A quality post.

I would like to point out to the reactionaries here that this is a theory based upon Kadokawa's work moreso than Kikiyama's original. So, are you fucks really angry at OP for interpreting the signs, or Kadokawa for putting them there? One made a conjecture, the other made a suggestion.

that said, 0/10 because you did not mention the Ramones or Evil Bong

 No.2177

>>2176
>the Ramones or Evil Bong
Holy shit, why are you still here?

 No.2179

>>2176
You're not funny pls stop

 No.2184

>>2179
>>2177

If you keep giving him attention, he will keep coming back.

>>2175

>implying all theories aren't fanfiction


You say that people should be able to view the game however they want, but then you tell us to stop. Which is it?

>>2166

Ok. I thought you were referring to Madotsuki, though.

 No.2186

File: 1519991415477.png (31.33 KB, 204x300, more-cute-poniko.png)

>>2165

(Continued)

It's likely that Madotsuki experienced several events that lead to her becoming a shut-in. I agree with that part. One bad experience is not going to ruin her life forever.

I thought Monoko was just highlighted blue so it would be easier for the player to see her. The room that chase takes place in is dark. But there was a lot of imagery related to death in the original game (the ghost world, spirit NPCs, hitaikakushi, hitodama) so I can see it. Even so, there's nothing really saying Monoko is dead. If that is the intention, or just what Kikiyama was trying to convey, then given how the stoplight effect was used in the original I'd say the traffic accident thing is more likely. She could have been left alive from it and just been horribly disfigured, which is why she has a monsterous form. Monoko was also pretty much hidden away in the original game- you have to go out of your way to find her and Monoe. I can see them both being people Mado remembers, but Monoko and Monoe resemble each other so much it's not hard to see why people think they're sisters.

>>2152

That makes sense. Something could have happened between them when they were younger, leading to a falling out.

I've always kind of viewed Poniko's event as her getting annoyed with Madotsuki. If the player keeps being the worst house guest ever she retaliates. The cones around her house have been said to resemble Japanese party poppers, so maybe this is Mado's memory of a party Poniko threw- one that didn't go well, and ended with their friendship deteriorating. However, it's more suggestive than anything having to do with Monoe, when you look at it. I stated what I thought Uboa resembles, and you turn off the lights in order to make it appear. When you touch it, Uboa transports you to a world filled with the aforementioned imagery (the substance the world is made of, and the bloody-touching monster appears to be groping something) This could imply that Madotsuki was sexually involved with Poniko.

I found it weird that Onsen-san appears near Shitai-san in the remake. You'd think the two wouldn't be related in the slightest. Shitai seems to be more directly related to the stoplight, however- it could be that Mado saw the gruesome aftermath of a car accident one day, and this is her memory of that instance. As you said, it may have been traumatizing for her.

 No.2189

>>2165
just die

 No.2193

>>2184
Connotations. Can doesn't mean should, it's just possible. Pretending that your far-fetched, within context, head canons have even a hint of credibility because, "all the signs just fit together so well in my head olololo", is extremely obnoxious. People see what they want to see. They see their story. Op clearly already thinks too much about this Americana flavored social nonissue. It's a typical, sensationlistic and perverse mindset.

 No.2199

>>2162
>I'm surprised nobody associated the lighthouse that kills you with poniko's house (they both have hitodama flying around).
Made me think, it's definitely in that direction.
I could see this as a symbolism of going to Ponikos house in the real world – lights light car lights or people seeing her. Likely hid away on the way to the house and avoided that, too.

 No.2200

You're not going to get any serious replies about this topic in this politically paranoid cynical nu-internet shithole.

 No.2205

>>2189

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6v1any8irbc

It's amusing to me how when people post theories like this, everyone acts like it's the end of the world. If there's any cancerous part of the fanbase it's this, constantly whining about the new game instead of just appreciating the fact that we got new content after years of waiting and antagonizing anyone who doesn't post in a certain way. Get off your high horse. You don't own this website, so stop acting like it and leave the moderating to the actual mods.

If anything I thought everyone posting in this thread would criticize OP for namefagging and posting a theory in /yndd/ when it should have been posted in /t/. I didn't give them a hard time for it because I thought their theories were decent, if farfetched, and I didn't want to drive them away. But OP hasn't posted anything here since the first three posts. Congratulations, I think you all did just that.

Honestly, I'm more inclined to respond to >>2193 because that anon is at least giving me something to work with and brings up good points. Yes, a lot of theories are incredibly far-fetched. Have you seen the tvtropes page for Yume Nikki? The WMG page is dedicated to fans guessing what the game is about and it's the most ridiculous thing I've ever read. Like I said, I'm not a fan of the transgender theory; I think that's the work of idiots from tumblr desperately trying to impose their ideals on the game. I wanted to try and give more credence to it so people would actually take it seriously. I see that wasn't a good idea.

 No.2207

>>2205
>I see that wasn't a good idea.
There. Right there you nailed it on the head. i thought about telling op off for putting a theory in yndd, but frankly i'd rather have it be contained here. This reminds me of that shitty theory about how Mado killed herself becuase she was so horrified by her mind and the philosophical implications that her dream had becuase she read a lot of philosophy and wrote about it in her diary. You can see anything. Maybe Mado only goes in male bathrooms becuase she likes smelling toliets that boys were sitting on. Maybe she's a shut in becuase people discovered how much of a pervert she is. Maybe Monoko stopped being friends with her becuase of this. E man looks like a doctor because Mado has a yeast infection. See, I can do it too.

 No.2208

>>2205
>>2207
I should mention I posted it here kinda' knowing what to expect, but thought it might be interesting. For the record, I'm not a type of person to usually think about gender identity stuff in games, nor did I ever get any sort of impression of that from the original YN when I played it years ago. But there's several odd things in YNDD I can't help but feel play into this at least a bit, like why are all the restrooms in the school's men's restrooms? Why to get the secret ending you activate the symbol of Venus and then step into a giant circle of Venus? It's a bit far-fetched and I opened with it kind of intentfully to get some gut reactions from people since I thought it'd be fun to see people just read that and respond as it's not really the crux of my thoughts. I also don't really think my theory is any more liable than anyone else's, I think the purpose of theories is for communication and sharing rather than for concrete, "THIS IS WHAT THE GAME IS ABOUT." I always have viewed the sharing aspect as the more interesting side. I also decided to put it here because this is a theory for YNDD, which is very recent, rather than the original YN. I do believe theories separating the two will be important going forward, and this is still a very recent game so I thought it might be best contained here (if it was in just theories I think people would more take it as me thinking this was also a theory for the original game and not just YNDD).


Many people are scared of what new audiences (or the experience) may bring to YN, but frankly whatever happens will happen. I'm neither a longtime or new fan, I only played the original game in 2011, have played it and a number of fan games since then,but I think earnesty in a hostile environment to such things has some form of worth. Even if it's just worth to me, I suppose.

I think the good aspect of theories is not to say anything concrete, since really an outside mind can't concrete the abstract, but rather to discuss, communicate, and just notice things. It's really no different than any other form of communication, the problem many have I think is many presume for whatever reason a 'theory' is something someone is trying to impose on them to believe rather than just the personal thoughts, observations, understandings, and sharing from one person to another. I have been reading the replies so wasn't scared off, I just didn't want to interrupt as ironically people 'theorize' what my intent and what I mean from my post.

 No.2209

>>2208
The restrooms could be becuase the team was too lazy to make another door and the venus symbol could be meaningless visuals. The problem with many theories, is that they imply the people making a game were actively thinking about ridiculous shit. A bunch of people sharing headcanons and talking about their bizzare guesses without heavy scrutiny seems like a circle jerk to me. Why not talk about the actual merits of the game?

 No.2210

>>2209
I've done just that too, but elsewhere. Gameplay design, personal thoughts and talking with others. I am the type to go on tangents so I went on an overtly long one I didn't mean to actually about how Yume Nikki Dream Diary felt like a dialogue-less Twilight Syndrome game mixed with Yume Nikki, how some design decisions I think worked well and others not as well. On it's own it's still plenty charming, but also has a few design decisions that I personally don't think were the right call. I think for example Eye World despite being heavily changed was an interesting rendition of the Eye World from the original even if it emphasizes the meat aspect, Pink World is stunning and frankly the original Pink World was kind of just, "wander until you find the balloon/effect", so I thought it was a great realization of it (except for Uboa, which was lesser I felt). I think Lantern World's little cameo was good enough (I never really liked Lantern World though), but then other places got shifted like the weird sprinkles of the Forest-themed worlds in other worlds briefly or some completely shunned interesting places from the original like the White Desert. It looses some charm from all the NPCs either being detached or hostile than the original, which they have nice designs and still are interesting but makes the world in turn feel more hostile than isolated often. I really didn't like the shadow monster or the two chase scenes with it, and the game concluding with a shadow monster chase I wasn't fond of (or that last area 3D platforming with the Z-axis which was sometimes hard to judge, though overall I didn't mind the platforming). The Umbrella effect was way more fun than it should've been, meanwhile the knife effect was greatly down-scaled in use.

This could go on and on, I have a lot of thoughts. Overall I'd say I didn't like it as much as the original Yume Nikki, but I still enjoyed it actually. I actually would be game for the studio doing some sort of sequel, just maybe not a re-imagining of the original, more ambitious, polished (for certain), and time spent into thinking over the design/content. I feel many don't want that, but I'd personally be interested. Though frankly I think probably they may do Ao Oni 3D next, and frankly I almost feel that might come out better from what they demonstrated here.

 No.2211

>>2210
The only good aspects of yndd are faithfully taken from yn. Without a really good base, i'm not convinced this team would be able to make something even half-way decent.

 No.2217

>>2207
>>2209

Seconded. The whole point of Yume Nikki is that it’s supposed to be ambiguous. Any explanation of the events of the game works here, because it isn’t canon in the first place.

>>2208

Good to know that you’re still here. I apologize if it seemed like I was trying to take over the thread at points- I talk about people trying to police others but I was doing the same thing. Perhaps it was incorrect of me to mention /t/, since that board has been dead for some time. /ot/ would be a better place for this, given how people are replying to it. But live and learn, I guess. I talked more about the old game than the new one.

That’s an optimistic way of looking at things. I’ve played a few fan games (Miserere, Yume 2kki, and .flow) and they kept me interested in the original. I got excited when Dream Diary came out, but the backlash it received tainted my opinion of it. The criticism is useful in some regards, but I think people are going too far with it.

Alright then. I’ve seen it happen before so I assumed the worst. It’s better to intervene if people are deliberately trying to derail the thread, unless you don’t believe in that. Either position is an understandable one to take.

 No.2221

>>2208
> like why are all the restrooms in the school's men's restrooms?

I'm sorry but isn't this literally a Unity game? It just could be a matter of lazy resources.

 No.2222

>>2221
It'd actually be easier to make them NOT men's restrooms if it was because of laziness, as all they'd have to do is take out the urinals and replace them with bathroom stalls. More so how the bathrooms are laid out are actually different.

 No.2223

>>2222
Well, maybe they didn't think about that, and by the time they did, they already made the urinal model. Most ot the dev team was probably male, so a mistake like that makes sense.

 No.2227

People are going to hate me for this, but I just noticed that after you finish the Mall World if you pay attention after the Mannequins surround Madotsuki she quite clearly jolts up awake, looks down, and rubs her crotch. I didn't notice that until I was just editing something right now. I'm not going to say any theories for it, just an observation.

 No.2228

>>2227
Or no, sorry to bump this, she's just rubbing her eye but the camera makes it look more awkward than it actually is (and Madotsuki's weird skirt physics does make the skirt move making it look more like it, but I'm sure now it's just an eyerub. itsnothing.jpg, carry on.

 No.2385

>>2151
>>2152
>>2153
>>2227
>>2228

>muh sexual imagery

>dick this, vag that
>phallic this, uterus that
>hey looks she's rubbing her clit
>oh no, nevermind
You appear to be suffering from freudianism, a mental disorder in which you become obsessed with sex caused by a lack of sex or masturbation or by consuming drugs that raise your libido such as cocaine (as did freud himself).

Also it is highly doubtful that kikiyama time traveled and made a SJW LGBTBBQ based game about a transexual child in 2004. Sounds like you are biased.

 No.2387

>>2385
Why didn't you let this thread stay buried?

 No.2388

>>2387
>on the front page
>buried
thinken.jpg

 No.2389

>>2388
I wasn't on the front page, it was on the first page of /yndd/. I'm talking about /recent/, newfag.

 No.2390

>>2385
Honestly I really don't like the idea of Mado being trans, but if you seriously think transgender people couldn't exist in 2004 or way before that then you are simply an idiot and have probably never had a discussion with a genuine trans person who suffers from gender dysphoria. Not all trans people are "SJWs" either you are practically stereotyping at that point.

Sorry I just thought it was really fucking stupid you would think that like I know it wasn't as well-known in 2004, but whatever I digress.

 No.2391

File: 1527346469117.jpg (238.79 KB, 1600x1280, 1525280587108.jpg)

>>2390
Trans problems in japan, 2004? important enough to make a game?
The trans theory is 100% western and came out around 2011. Anon is just stating a fact, don't strawman him because he never said there wasn't trans people back then, he just said that YN hinting at that is stupid, because it is.

Sorry I just thought it was really fucking stupid you would think like that I know it triggers you but whatever I digress.

 No.2392

File: 1527353073067.jpg (93.78 KB, 850x585, __original_drawn_by_biriji….jpg)

>>2390
King strawman. He never said trans people didn't exist in 2004.
>suffer
Exactly, suffer. It's a mental illness like any other. We don't treat people with body dysphoria by giving them liposuction, we give them meds and therapy. This is especially true for children. There's a good reason why trans people commit suicide more often on average, it's not just because of harassment or whatever. No matter how deluded or how hard a person tries, they will never truly possess the characteristics that are intrinsic to the other gender, mentally or physically. It's a delusion. There is no trans in my yn.

 No.2393

The biggest reason the trans theory is bullshit is also the exact same main reason it's even a thing to begin with; if Mado were trans, why the fuck would she DREAM of using a male restroom? Trans women fucking hate the idea.

 No.2395

>>2393
The trans theory is bullshit, but that logic is too. People can dream about things they don't want or like.

 No.2397

>>2395
Uh it's not framed in a way that's remotely negative. She just uses the male bathroom like anything else. It's literally potty humor (Haha look at the little girl in the boy's restroom who's going to stop her)

 No.2399

>>2397
I'd say it's not even framed in a comedic way. It's framed in no way. For all we know it could have been a mistake.

 No.2401

I think this transtrender pandering is by far the biggest affront to the original game. Sure, you could make an argument that many "monsters" in the original game are derived from feminine shapes or something like that, and I think that's fairly reasonable. But it's not like the original game put any emphasis on those, it's just there among other oddities of the dream world. But this game just had to go and make everything as literal as possible. And the big idea is not even clever, somehow it's the same trendy nonsense that the lowest of the low of the game's community are spouting. "Oh, she has gender dysphoria!" When all is said and done, gender dysphoria is not that different from major depression. So what we get is that someone refusing to leave their room has major depression. Gee, who could've possibly thought of that!?

 No.2403

File: 1527471766340.jpg (33.88 KB, 494x494, 1440292405951.jpg)

>why you all are so offended at the idea of madotsuki being trans
The only user that was actually offended by anything said in this thread since its revival is >>2390 , the rest are only pointing out how unlikely the theory is, and how forced it is to fit into western modern standards.

If you want to insist madotsuki is a hikisexual nemukin, go ahead, just don't pretend it actually is relevant or likely because "the original game is too ambiguous to nail down any assumptions". If you watch a WW2 movie and see a scene where some guys disguising themselves as women to pass through enemy lines you don't pretend they're oppressed trans and get offended when told how silly that sounds. Context does matter when weighting how plausible something is to be true or not. The trans problem is just not that logical and is actually quite forced, so it is very unlikely.

The theory is western, interpreted by westerns, and spread among certain circles in the western fandom. Read any japanese theory prior 2010 and you won't find anything like that. In other words, if it wasn't a logical conclusion for the main target audience, then why would it make sense under the whole trans revolution seen in these years on this part of the world?

Again, you're free to think whatever you want, but it is not logical. Mado could be an astronaut and the balcony is just an hologram, but how likely is that?

 No.2404

>>2402
>but what's the point in arguing about it? just let people think madotsuki is trans, it's not going to harm anyone.
This could be said for 95% of the topics discussed ever.
>cut it with the phobic bs. trans ‘trending’ is a myth.
>If you dislike something, it scares you
Well, I dislike faeces but I don't feel like I have to fear for my life in its presence
>trans trending is a myth
Hahahahahahahahahahaha, did you miss the SJW LGBTwhatever revolution? Trans acceptance, etc.?
No, sorry all of this bullshit was unheard of before, say, 2008. So, yes, it's fucking trending. People are being brainwashed by SJW and the like into thinking their inadequacy and fucked up hormones means they want to become a woman and they are getting their dicks cut. It's trending and mainstream. Judging an old japanese game by those standards would be as if I were claiming cavemen living in caves meant they were feminists opposed to the idea of phallic objects, so that's why they lived in holes between rocks.

 No.2405

>trans ‘trending’ is a myth
It most certainly isn't, this conversation we're having is a testament to that.

If I remember correctly, there was a census regarding transgender people which found out that they make from 0.01 to 0.1% of the total population. Which means that genuine trans people are rather rare. But you wouldn't know if you looked at the way people talk about it. So basically what happens is that people who don't have to condition start to pretend they do and to glorify it, and to force it into whatever suitable context they can find. And that's what transtrending is. Ever heard the phrase "die cis scum"? Ironically enough, this really hurts the genuine trans folk at the end, because general public starts to view their condition as a teenage trend, rather than a mental illness it really is.

Not exactly YNDD-related, but the rest of the argument has already been made, and I'm honestly sick of hearing "go with our self-indulgent nonsense, or you're transphobic" rhetoric. Might as well explain this while we're having this conversation.

 No.2406

File: 1527486813925.jpg (40.72 KB, 464x450, oh-well.jpg)

It seems I missed a couple fun posts and they were deleted, how unfortunate.

To add my two cents to the previous topic, it is completely ilogical to think Yume Nikki's MC was trans for a bunch of reasons that were already said, the probability exists, but it's very low.

However, YN:DD is a different case, it wasn't made by Kikiyama nor in 2004, so the chances of these developers attempting to force subtle tokenism exists.

The "transtrender" movement exists and they try to insert their identity in every fictional character as long as they are just a bit vague about gender, just look at Undertale's fanbase.

I don't judge, I mean, the transgender community is poorly represented in media after all.

I don't like YN:DD nor the team behind it, so nothing is lost to me if this cheap thing is true, it's after all, just another fangame.

 No.2408

File: 1527517382493.jpg (Spoiler Image, 103.98 KB, 800x600, __minamitsukasa_naho_hime_….jpg)

>>2406
>the transgender community is poorly represented in media after all
Yeah, and the anorexic community is also poorly represented. I guess we should start glorifying anorexia. Same goes for the chronically depressed community. They're actually super cool, mysterious and brooding. It takes a lot of bravery to be chronically depressed. We need way more anorexic and chronically depressed characters portrayed in a positive light. Especially in children's media.

 No.2412

>>2408
You do know there can be other kind of presentation than glorifying?

 No.2413

>>2408
So you're saying that being trans is like a mental disorder?

 No.2414

I’m going to agree that while it is highly unlikely that the original game had anything to do with transness at all, it might have a few small nods to gender dysphoria, such as the bathroom thing. But it’s highly unlikely a reference to being transgender because of the time period and location the original game was made, as a few of you pointed out. Although gender dysphoria can exist as an emotion from time to time (in everyone) regardless of outside variables and cultural stigmas, and it’s likely that it may have manifested in the mc’s dreams from time to time. It is possible to have dysphoria but not have an overwhelming urge to be trans. The mc may have had subconscious questions about her gender but that’s probably the extent of it.
I just wanted to clear a few things up with some of you: While I agree with you that the media is blowing transness out of proportion and outright appropriating it, it IS raising awareness, and normalizing it, which can be a good thing for trans people to a degree.
Transness is not a mental illness in itself, but being trans is associated with mental illness due to societal stigmas. There’s often a gift basket of mental illnesses that you get from being trans in a society that ridicules it. Which is why gender dysphoria and depression go hand in hand.
Also the reason in the ‘increase’ in LGBT people recently is because a good portion of the previous generation died during the AIDS epidemic, so while many people think it is ‘trending’ in actuality this is the normal amount of LGBT people in the population. Also it is more normalized due to the media hype so more people that would have otherwise spent their lives in the closet are coming out because it is easier to. The culture is being normalized.
A lot of people have gender dysphoria their entire lives but do not know they are trans because they aren’t exposed to the idea, and it is widely viewed as taboo to dress or present as the opposite gender, so they never realize they are trans and thus don’t show up in the surveys.
Now that the media is spreading the idea of trans, it seems like it is ‘trending’ when in actuality more people who would have otherwise spent their lives in the closet are able to come out without having to worry about being ridiculed as much. The amount of trans people is thus going to increase, but the amount of gender dysphoria will always be around the same. Also, like any other condition, gender dysphoria exists on a spectrum, so a portion of people can have it but not be emotionally debilitated by it.

 No.2415

>>2413
If it's not, why do the symptoms dissapear while taking in antipsychotics?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8839957

 No.2416

>>2412
A positive light is practically the same thing. It's not healthy, it warrants treatment.
>>2413
Yes. Read the rest of the thread. It's name alone makes it clear that it is a mental illness. Gender dysphoria. Look at the suicide rates. Think about it by itself. It is a delusion. It is an illness. It should not be encouraged or portrayed in a positive light, especially to impressionable minds who don't know well enough to see through the political and ideological agenda of that portrayal.

 No.2417

>>2413
>do you see being unable to accept the state of your body as reality, believing in a false reality that is biologically impossible, and attempting to make said delusion reality through the intake of chemical treatments and self-mutilation as a mental illness?

 No.2418

>>2417
Well, on a side note, it could be caused due to excess estrogen. We live in the soyboy era after all.

 No.2419

>>2418
Fuck off faggot. Actual studies have proven that gender dysphoria exists. It has probably existed for far longer than soy products have been as common. It might partially be a side effect of culture's influence on other abnormalities. Kind of like the truman show or matrix disorder. There has not been definitive proof that soy makes men effeminate. Also, gender dysphoria is something that affects both males and females. Go back to pol or where ever you came from and stop lumping your pseudoscience in with everything.

 No.2420


 No.2421

Gender dysphoria *creates* mental health problems, such as depression and anxiety, it's by no means a mental health disorder on its own and that's been proven if you read any given paper on the fucking subject instead of screaming soy and sjw. People that transition with the help of hormones report lowered depression and the suicide rate goes down as a result.

>>2404
How old are you? Did you ever hear about the pride riots in the 80s? Started by a trans woman? This shit is older than 2008, the scientific progress and history was destroyed by the nazi's in germany, and we're just now seeing it become more socially acceptable again. Hell, trans people have existed since civilization has existed.

And seriously? Soy? Are you actually dumb enough to believe that meme, or do you just beg daddy Paul Joseph Watson to force feed you more brainforce+ all the time.

 No.2422

lol at these snowflakes getting mad that some people want to change their bodies. do you guys get angry about how "unnatural" tattoos and piercings are too?

people like you are gonna lose your shit in a few decades when robotic enhancements and shit start becoming commonplace

 No.2423

>>2419
Soyboy doesn't specifically refer to soy itself you mongoloid. It refers to someone who has his hormonal system disrupted due to nutrition and xenoestrogens from non-food sources. And to people who were born with these hormonal disorders.

 No.2424

>>2423
>mongoloid
lol, i'm not a, "mongoloid", because I don't know the exact definition of your pol lingo. Fuck off back there already.

 No.2425

>>2424
>soyboy
>pol lingo
Definitely mongoloid.



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