No.8909
I am currently working on a concept for an exploration game, which has some ties to YN, it's not exactly a fan-game, but I want it to be a surreal walking simulator.
Since YN, honestly, has its issues I am trying to figure out how to evade these issues. I am not here to roast YN or something, I am looking for design changes, that make the game easier to play, especially for people who dont know anything about the it (pic related).
Here's the most common issues i hear about and there is only one rule to go by: If there is no good design-excuse for it, cut it.
- Too much empty space. I would probably design more smaller worlds and reduce unneccecary walking. tedious looping is not fun. The map sizes need to be drastically reduced.
- Pointless effects. I would either implement some use for the effects given or get rid of the ones that only have a cosmetic purpose. There are 4 really useful effects. others are either completely pointless or they are useful like 1 time an then never again (Yukki Onna, Witch and Umbrella for example)
-Knife is good, would keep. Eye Palm is useful. I would remove the bike and just add a run-button. Stop-Light needs balancing, i would make it so that the npcs unfreeze automatically after a few secs to make it harder to escape the toriningen. The cat is kind of useful. Every other effect is of practically no use and can be removed.
-As a new player, you cannot get anywhere without the assistance of walkthroughs, wikis or youtube. That's just terrible game design and the tiniest amount of guidance would be much appreciated. However i have not yet found a way to get around this. There are no compasses or maps in dreams, really. So idk, let me know if you got any ideas.
Anything else you would change to improve the game? My goal is to make it more accessible to new players and to make exploration more rewarding.
No.8910
These are good ideas, I'd suggest against trying to write an actual plot into the game.
As for a map, maybe you could include one that is drawn AS you explore the land instead of having it complete right from the start, perhaps allowing the player to mark points of interest as they please.
No.8914
Half of what you suggested as flaws other people find endearing for Yume Nikki. You are not remaking the game, so focus on creating something new instead. Look at LSD Dream Emulator and other surreal walking games as an example of how you can take various spins on the concept.
No.8916
Umm… you know YN mostly exists to be theory fuel? That's why it has pointless effects. Empty space is there to give you time to think. No guidance so you can immerse yourself in the dream. So if you take this out in a remake, it won't be YN anymore. Terrible game design? Maybe, but it works this way.
And about your game, I have a suggestion. You see, .flow (a YN fangame) has a Television effect. It turns the head of the protagonist into a TV set, which shows different images if there are chasers or effects in the current room. So you maybe can add a useful effect that allows the player to navigate.
If you really think exploration games have to guide players, add a tutorial in which your player will get that navigation effect. Surely will make the game more accessible, but ruin the first impression.
No.8927
The walking speed is really slow, which makes giant maps with lots of empty space a huge chore.
No.8928
Like
>>8914 said. While I get that everyone can have different tastes, pretty much everything listed as a negative in this thread so far is a charm point of YN. The getting lost, the lack of instructions, the slow pace, mundane effects… YN is about exploration and discovery. If you take that away by narrowing passages and offering maps, then scrape away the mystery and experimentation offered by the cosmetic effects, you end up with an A-to-B rail story. If that's what you want, you should check out Deepseaprisoner's games, respectively.
>As a new player, you cannot get anywhere without the assistance of walkthroughs, wikis or youtubeWeird to say that when people have been beating the game on their own since before Youtube even came along. You not wanting to try on your own doesn't mean that the act is futile. Most people find enjoyment on making discoveries by themselves and YN aims to allow them to do so.
>>8927Enter bicycle. Getting lost and keeping an eye out for oddities in the vast emptiness is just a relaxing form of exploration. If you're organized and scan the area in lines one viewport scope at a time, it only takes about 3 minutes to cover everything.
If I were to change anything it would be the addition of more visual spectacles for people to interpret. Like the supposed alien light over the vista or the mars landscape. This is why I like 2kki, because there are a lot of linear rooms that only exist so you can enjoy the background scenery. Amazing things being beyond reach is a common dream subject after all.
No.8929
>Enter bicycle. Getting lost and keeping an eye out for oddities in the vast emptiness is just a relaxing form of exploration. If you're organized and scan the area in lines one viewport scope at a time, it only takes about 3 minutes to cover everything.
You can't really and honestly say that the bicycle is a good solution to the speed problem. The player should be given the chance to choose the speed of their exploration without having to rely on a hit-or-miss gimmick like finding the relative speed effect. A simple toggle key to go from low speed to normal (fast) speed would be the ideal solution for the people who want to explore a map at their leisure and those that don't want to feel like the game is dragging time for nothing.
No.8930
Yume Nikki isn't a game about gameplay, it's a game about atmosphere, contemplation and mystery. Warily trekking through a lonely void with your thoughts is as much a part of the experience as visiting Poniko or running from Toringen - in fact, it's what makes those moments feel special. Imagine if every instance of empty space was cut out, would it still feel like a journey through the mind of a troubled hermit? Or would it feel like a gallery of weird sprites? The game isn't meant to be convenient (see: Hell, the most player-unfriendly map I can think of in any game except maybe Dark Souls) and the player isn't meant to see every piece of content (see: All the events with tiny chances of happening, plus the ones with no logic to their "solutions"). I could keep talking about this forever but I have to go, maybe later if anyone cares.
>What would you change?
I would randomise parts of the map when the save file is created or when the .exe is first ran to make it harder to use online walkthroughs. Might also open up some cool opportunities like a room that has a 1/600 chance of permanently existing in some remote location.
No.9017
>>8930I would randomise parts of the map when the save file is created or when the .exe is first ran to make it harder to use online walkthroughs. Might also open up some cool opportunities like a room that has a 1/600 chance of permanently existing in some remote location.
I like this idea, I think that one of the strongest points of yume nikki is its map design. Effects are really a side note, except when they have an effect on the world around them. I think what could be changed about yume nikki and other walking simulators is the replayablitiy of it, everyone has their own special experiences with the game, but for the most part those experiences are felt in the first playthough of the game. I like the idea of parts of the map randomly changing in subtle ways, ways that would be most noteable after becoming familiar with the maps in the first few playthroughs.
I also think that there could be some events that change the layout of the world. I like how the nexus equivalent in.flow changed sometimes, it made it feel like whenever I passed through it the areas might have changed in some way. This would also help replayablitity. Once you know where exactly each effect is in yume nikki it's easy to just make your way to them without paying as much attention to the maps as in the first playthough. Perhaps the order of effects acquired could change the maps or location of subsequent effects?
No.9167
>Too much empty space
Totally disagree, I found empty space was essential to the game. Cutting the time between discoveries down would ruin the rush of finding something unique.
>Pointless/OP effects
I would have liked effects to do more than they currently do in specific areas just so players can experiment and find more new things. Having gamey progression where you need specific effects to progress wouldn't be terrible, but kind of counter-intuitive to how open YN is. Maybe there was a player who found the blonde hair a super interesting effect. The useless effects are cute, nice for adding personality.
>You cannot get anywhere without help.
The two pieces of advice I needed before starting was that there is an actual goal to the game (collecting effects). Most of the game's effects can easily be found if you actually explore the oddities. Having a walkthrough that
My biggest change would be making diagonal floors automatically move you diagonally so you don't have to wiggle your arrows to get through that checkerboard spot. Other than that the more streamlining you add the farther you stray from the point. The original animal crossing felt rewarding BECAUSE of the terribly slow functionality.
No.9168
I would make the worlds non-looping (?) because it is a waste of time and at some point it makes me lose interest in playing.
No.9169
>>9168Samefag, there would be a map where you can only see the areas you have explored before. The map would be in the diary.
No.9210
What do you plan on naming the game? I wanna see it when you show it off and I don't want it to be forever… 'lost'… in a way when this thread is archived or something
