/sugg/ - Suggestions / Meta

>>3644
It isn't final, because the mods haven't reconvened on it since our last discussion about it. This would be a good time for us to poll our users' opinions on rule 3, and all of the rules for that matter. A comprehensive review of the current rules and the way they shape our community is far overdue.

>>3645
The rules and site overall give me very mixed signals. Looking at the rules and guidelines now, or a couple months ago, they seem to mostly be focused on maintaining quality discussion while being very, "lenient", in other ways. A lot of it seems focused on curtailing arguments. How the current ruleset is enforced is very unclear. I'm not sure whether discussion or something else is actually prioritized more. I'm also not sure who exactly this site is intended for or what it's trying to be aside from a yn fansite and maybe an imageboard, whatever that even means anymore. This is especially true for guideline 5.

Looking at the site itself and the community, /og/ has a reference to saya no uta right there. There's also been a lot of discussion related to the pc-98, which has a library chock full of porn of all kinds. I assumed that and related types of things were common interests here outside of yn, but now I really have no idea. There have been discussions about loli in the past, and current issues didn't seem to be reflected during that time, so from my perspective, it's very confusing. To me, Rozencrab era regulations were just as nonsensical then and they are now. Recently, I got around to watching Gunbuster for the first time. I thought about talking about it, but it has a lot of nude scenes and i'm pretty sure those cartoon characters weren't 18 yet, so for all I know that would make somebody here feel, "uncomfortable".

This thread has been pinned, so really it seems time for others to speak up about this. Either there's really that few people on, or for whatever reason they don't feel like talking. If the people here really don't share my sensibilities, I'd like to know about it rather than let if be left vague.

>>3646
The key phrase in rule 3 is "unless directly relevant to a discussion". Nowhere in the rules does it forbid you to post loli/hentai without spoilers as long as it's applicable to the thread you're starting or replying to. Rule 3 as it sits is the perfect compromise. People who want to post NSFW content outside of where it's expected are able to post it, people who don't want to see NSFW content are able to avoid it with relative ease. Rule 5 is straightforward, "don't post bait and don't instigate raids/arguments." There isn't any reason that a thread on Gunbuster or PC-98 games would raise any red flags.

The individual who first brought up the moderation inconsistencies was using loli as some sort of digital signature/avatar on all of their posts. Since tripcodes are used here, I'll assume that any debate concerning avatar usage is negated by that. The real issue at hand is that the pictures were usually bordering on shock image territory and had no context or relevancy to the threads they were posted in. There are countless imageboards dedicated to uploading hentai and sharing it with other people. I don't understand why someone would feel that it's necessary to dump their porn folder on a small imageboard that fills a very specific niche.

>>3648
>You can post it unspoilered if it's relevant
Nope. The rule states
>unless directly relevant to a discussion, spoilered, and clearly marked
The key word being and. Even if it's relevant, those three are a prerequisite. That's also for guro specifically. Rule 3 also states
>or post NSFW images unless spoilered
Which doesn't mention relevancy at all. I also didn't mention rule 5, I mentioned guideline 5, which is a separate thing.

I don't understand why nsfw images, especially of a certain kind, are treated specially. What is it about them that makes them deserve to be handled differently? If that's how the majority of people really feel, fine, but that seems contradictory to other things. Those porn sites also have virtually no discussion on them. Why is nsfw images and discussion mutually exclusive, especially when things that contain nsfw images are discussed often and are directly mentioned by a site? Saying uboachan fills an extremely small niche is inaccurate. While it is primarily intended as a YN fansite, most discussion is unrelated to that during the majority of time. I'm not sure if I interpreted that part of your post accurately or not though.

It sems that rule 3 has been changed yet again. Now NSFW images are allowed, except of a certain kind. What bothers me more than the arbitrariness of banning one type of drawing over another due to personal feelings and western cultural norms after those images were already allowed for a good while(this is just my guess since there hasn't been any official explanation), is how covertly these changes are being made. No explanation and no consideration of feedback before making the change. Before the cosplay board was annexed, people were asked how they feel about it and that effected the final outcome. Recently, people were asked how they feel about the /hikki/ board. Yet somehow, just like that, this changes while everything else remains the same. Sei has invited people to talk about this, but aside from one guy, nobody else has weighed in, so I'm not sure whose views directed this change, since it can't be the users. This might still be subject to change for all I know. Really everything is a mystery until you pound on the door hard enough.

>>3650
I changed the rule to be slightly more permissive while I wait for the rest of the staff (and hopefully more users) to write their opinions. All we are sure of right now is we don't want unspoilered shock porn all over the site. We are figuring out where to set the bar for how welcoming/offputting the site should to users who are not deeply adapted to chan culture, and loli/shota images are on the chopping block due to their shaky legality in many locales as well as their shock value to people who might want to just talk about Yume Nikki.

>>3651
Thank you for your response. I'd like to know what you intend for the site in the future and how much that reflects what people want, if that makes any sense. Are there a good amount of newcomers to YN and is there a lack of places for them to talk about it? Is ubuu appealing to these people regardless of porn being present or not? Besides the scanlations, ubuu doesn't have that much of a draw for that crowd, if it even exists. It's slower paced than most image boards, and image boards as a whole aren't drawing in a lot of new people compared to Discord and other social media platforms. The yume nikki tumblr section is way more likely to draw in new people, but even that's dying. There's also a reddit section for yume nikki. Compared to those places, besides their respective platforms being more popular, they're also more focused on the subject matter, so people who just want to talk about yn and nothing else will likely prefer them anyway. I don't know whether being accommodating to new users is actually an issue or not. Do you have a reason to believe it is? Am I wrong about all that?

As for legality in locales, are you referring to the US? Might as well enforce stricter piracy rules too if shaky legality is seriously a concern. You could also consider reporting people who talk about drug use too.

I got a second opinion on the legality issue and I'll simply repost what they wrote. Before that though, i'd like to point out that spoilering illegal content does nothing to make it less illegal and law enforcement couldn't care less either way.


Quote:
First of all, despite what anyone tells you, the first amendment of the U.S. protects ALL "art" and speech.
>But, muh obscenity laws!
They're unconstitutional and built on nothing more than subjective judgement. They don't, and never will, carry any actual weight. Even then, there is already (Unconstitutional) laws in place in regards to prosecuting someone for possession of "extreme content" such as "cartoon child porn", and just look at how many cases there actually are of someone getting fined or sent to jail in the U.S. for it. There's only been five known cases. Four were people in possession of actual child porn. The only case where it was BECAUSE the guy had lolicon porn was tried in a military court, and they went after the guy, not because it was lolicon, because it was PORN (Which he wasn't suppose to have in the first place)…
Third, no police force in the U.S. will even WANT to go after it because they KNOW it's harmless and it interferes with their work or going after ACTUAL criminals who commit REAL crimes. Korea and England already suffer from this issue where the police don't have time for "actual crime" because they're too busy arresting people for looking at 2D girls, or posting something mean online: https://archive.fo/OUqfO
On top of that, the U.S. congress pushed through a bill, last year, called SESTA/FOSTA, with the purpose of "stopping online sex trafficking", which even had the DoJ screaming that the bill won't actually solve anything and only make their jobs harder: https://archive.fo/eNz2u
And, that's also leaving out the fact that the one site that both the bills were design for specifically taking down (Backpage.com) was seized before the bill was even passed: https://archive.fo/bgLo0

Long story short, there shouldn't be anything to worry about. There is nothing illegal about 2D and fiction, and people know this.
:End quote.

>>3656
It's not so much about US law as it is about UK law, Russian law (we almost got blocked in Russia over loli once) and the laws of other countries that delusionally fight to protect the rights of fictional children. We have a LOT of users in other countries, there's a post with statistics in this board somewhere. Spoilering doesn't make it legal but it's a good middle ground that makes it harder for other countries' law agencies to notice. It's also about people who aren't already deeply ingrained in imageboard culture feeling comfortable posting here as a yume nikki fansite. Loli porn is shock porn for most people and it'll chase off everyone except the oldfags. It has been my hope for some of the new generation of Yume Nikki fans to start coming here. There are many issues turning this place into a walled garden, but loliposting is one of the loudest.

1) Spoiler loli.
2) Don't use loli for every single post. You're the only person who had been doing that. This whole issue only came up because you were spreading loli like a gallon of butter all over the site. We'd really prefer if you just used other images in the first place. It's like the posting guideline about swearing. Loli and porn is like spice, it's fine once in a while but you can't just dump it everywhere or you ruin the food.

>>3658
If that's that, alright. A final answer to this question was what I was looking for. As long as it almost sort of kind of not fully decided, I saw a point in arguing my side of things, but that's not an issue anymore. I'm assuming vpns and that kind of stuff existing wont convince you either.

>>3651
Personally (as someone new to yume nikki and uboachan), I'm okay with the idea of spoilering lewder stuff since being asked to keep images with some shock value behind spoiler tags is quite different from snuffing out the right of free speech in a community IMO. It seems reasonable, as well, to assume that having shocking content not immediately visible by default would make uboachan easier to visit while on public spaces (although a very literally dark site such as this one would still catch a good deal of attention from onlookers). To me uboachan is a cozy site, where people talk about whatever they want, but still having the common interest that is yume nikki, and as long as it stays that way, I would't mind having to use spoilers in some images i want to post, having to click on some others to see what they are about, or not having any kind of filter at all.

>>3666
>I would't mind having to use spoilers in some images i want to post, having to click on some others to see what they are about, or not having any kind of filter at all.
So you couldn't care less either way. I wonder what sei would do if the anti-defamation league or whatever started cracking down on sits where people can say faggot. Faggot is certainly offputting to a lot of people too. I'm just wondering where the limit is now and if it'll move. When will some Canadian or Brit get arrested for something posted here? When will they start mandating access to ip information? If it was a choice between being banned in Europe or doing that, what would sei pick?

>>3667
Except that's not equivalent to what's being presented. Loli isn't being banned outright, people are just being asked to keep it relevant and not be autistic in throwing their shit everywhere like some other interest groups do. Asking you to keep loli in places it is relevant to and spoilering it is not even remotely the same as banning the word faggot outright.

>>3668
When looking at the motivations for doing so, it is similar. It being off putting for one. I don't see how much of a leap it is for faggot to become a "legal gray area" internationally. I don't see how far off adding a word filter is either considering how arisuchan has one. Technically that's not an outright ban either. If you don't see the connection, that's great for you.

>>3669
Except a word filter is an outright ban on what it affects. Requiring spoilering is not.

>>3670
k, this should be required then faggot nigger

I think I posted about this in the other thread(?) but ill chime in again. I've been coming here on and off for probably around 6 years now. I agree with loli being spoilered unless relevent to discussion. I think I would be in favor of all shock images/porn being handled the same way also. I also agree that this is a comfy place that doesn't need to be shit up by garish pictures. don't get me wrong, its not because I have a strong stance against it, I've seen my fair share of gore and scat but there is no reason to unnecessarily dampen another users experience juat because you can't be bothered to spoiler your picture.

I like this place because it is relaxed (do wish it was a bit more popular though, but I doubt this will have too much an effect)

>>3649
I think you're just arguing over semantics here.

>>3671
Cool story kike

>>3672
I agree. It strikes me as pretty autistic to demand the ability to post, regardless of the content and tone of the thread, not only porn but a specific and niche subset of porn absolutely anywhere and without restriction.

>>3672
>>3673
This argument would hold up a lot better if all porn had to be spoilered, but it isn't. Sei explained his reasoning, which I disagree with. Nothing I can do about that, but there's no reason for you to make this about something its not. It's clear to me that you don't value the same things as me, so there isn't any point to this thread anymore. This is the last thing i've got to say.

>>3674
Some of it already does though. Do you object to the requirement to spoiler guro and gore and keep it where it's relevant? If not, then you're not objecting to the rule you're objecting to something you like being reclassified to fall under that rule.

>>3675
>Do you object to the requirement to spoiler guro and gore and keep it where it's relevant?
That was already a lost battle when I first came and probably since site inception.