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/sugg/ - Suggestions / Meta

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Uboachan's scanlation group Patchy Illusion Team has just released two new Yume Nikki Doujins: In the Shallows and Refrain. You can see all of our previous releases here.

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 No.3632

>I have already made it clear that it's not about loli or guro but rather your explosive derailment that consistently came with those two. Even if the images were kept up, you would still be warned for thread derailment and flamebaiting. Any user can post those two (guro if properly spoiled) and be left off fine.
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Hi, I have a suggestion, change rule 3 back. I have not derailed threads, I have not acted abrasively, and I have not contributed or started flame wars. Loli and shota has zero effect on discussion. It does not derail threads or start flame wars. The quality of posts is simply not effected.

The issue with banning something(or censoring it) because it makes people uncomfortable, is that anything can make anybody uncomfortable. What about what makes me uncomfortable? What if I don't like candles, or horses. What if I have a phobia of insects, does that mean insect pics should be spoilered? Why should what makes "some" "uncomfortable" be prioritized? As for the majority of users being bothered by it, I haven't seen that. 1, 1 post with loli in it has been reported folks. I wonder where this mysterious outrage is coming from, because I just see it. Was there a vote, because I didn't see one.

The fact of the matter is there's absolutely nothing reasonable about this rule change. It is utterly selfish and shows a blatant disregard for the principles of this site or what makes it great.
>dark-but-chill hangout
How does a place that succumbs to this kind of mentality fit that bill?. Tumblr, Steam, 34paheal, they're all going in that direction. Think about what you're doing a little harder and maybe even grow a little thicker skin.

How does everybody else feel? Please lead me your voices. Let's at least discuss this reasonably.

>It depends a lot of how well staff and users communicate. When staff and users start to see a clear division where one side expects to just be understood, without any attempt on their part to hear out the other half, the whole thing starts to crumble in my opinion.


Not only that, but what constitutes loli? If they're three hundred, are they still loli? How exactly can you tell from a drawing? If they're flat-chested? Are you gonna go the Australia route?

>I'm completely indifferent to loli / guro

>You can still post DFC, nobody is impeding you from that.

 No.3633

>because I just don't see it.

 No.3634

By the way, if people are complaining on Discord, that really shouldn't matter. Those peopledon't people don't even fucking lurk here, not even mods, right? That's what I heard over and over again. Their supposed to be a separate community, right?

 No.3635

It was I who ended up pulling the trigger on this one. I was actually in agreement with you at first. Writer wanted to ban loli images entirely, but I was like, they're not illegal so why? People should be able to post whatever they want.

But then I saw your new thread on /x/. Really great opening post, exactly the kind of material I want to be there. But the opening image is a loli pissing on a monk's head. And my eyes just kept drifting to that, and all I could think was, why? Why do this? Picture unrelated is a time-honored tradition, but why use an obnoxious image like this which is definite to offend a lot of people? It's not any different from goreposting. It creates a walled garden where a lot of new people will not want to begin posting on the site. The only users who will stick around for the discussion are the probable minority who are comfortable with the images attached to it. That's exactly what goreposting is intended to do, and I don't want that at all.

I have always loved Uboachan for the quality of discussion. And seeing a quality post marred by an image which would force some users to look away really got under my skin.

I think the freedom to post whatever images you want is important, but I think that being able to have quality discussion without being forced to look at shock imagery is also a kind of freedom which is important, and that it's an important policy for allowing new users to be drawn in. NSFW images posted without context can be kind of obnoxious, but I don't want to ban them entirely. So I talked with some of the mods and settled on spoilering such images, so that anyone who wants to see them can, and anyone who doesn't want to, doesn't have to. That seems fair to me.

 No.3636

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>>3635
Sei, i'm grateful for your post, but there's some things that are just untouchable. I'm going to try to calmly explain myself.
>all I could think was, why?
I'll tell you why. The answer is that it shouldn't matter. It shouldn't be important. That's it. That's all there is to it.
>It creates a walled garden where a lot of new people will not want to begin posting on the site.
Why? Let me ask why now. Why should every single person, every single drifter that comes in be completely immune from potentially having their feeling a little rustled?
>Get upset at "bad" words or a little rude language, you silly faggot. Speech is free and our userbase has a dark sense of humor. Deal w/it.
Remember? I could go on and on about every group that could be offended. The fundamental issue is with the obsession with irrationally trying to make everybody and everything comfortable, always. Muslims, transexuals, jews, blacks, clowns, nuns, mimes, candle stick makers. On and on and on.

Maybe, just maybe, some people aren't good for the site. Maybe, those people are the types who can't handle a cartoon. Who can't find it within them self to talk about things because of a lewd picture somebody drew.

As for loli. what about my questions? Can you even define loli? How do you know what is and isn't? What is shock imagery? Piss, candle wax, blood, insects. This, is insanity.

>also a kind of freedom which is important

Why? How many new users are actually coming in? Is this place really such a magnet? I don't think so. I think preexisting users are more important because they make discussion worthwhile. That's what i've seen. If new users don't like what older ones have to offer, the discord is always available to them. Face it, that's where 99% go anyway, right?

I didn't want to pull this card, but right now i'm between a moving train and a cliff side.

I remember when this site was at critically low activity this last summer. The site needed donations to keep going and the last day arrived. Then another day and another, and another. Finally, I took money from what's strictly my emergency fund and donated it. In three days or pleading, not the 100+ people on discord, nor mods, nor writer, nor the fifteen active users here could collectively pull 55 or something dollars together. 9 people would have to give 5 dollars.

I'm a janitor. I can't count the number of times I've deleted a barrage of spam posts at 2 or 3 in the morning. I never took breaks, not on vacation, or when I was sick, or when I had family over. Every day I diligently checked.

I'm the reason video embedding exists. I took the initiative on that.

For the last 2+ years I've been extremely active. I've wrote walls of text after walls of text because I'm passionate about uboachan. Halloween threads, Christmas, New Years Eve. Now i'm going to be muzzled? For the sake of who? The supposed half of the, "userbase", who I've barely hears a peep from about this? I feel despair, not discomfort, all encompassing dread, for me, for the here, for the internet, for the future.

Please.

 No.3637

>>3636
Red text and rules have been changed to nsfw instead of just loli/shota. That's even worse. What the fuck? Who looks at ubuu at work, they really shouldn't anyway. Am I being punished or something? How is this the same ubuu exactly??????

 No.3638

>>3637
Also, what about old posts? Lurking through old posts is an integral part of smaller boards, since you know, it's not fucking discord. Is somebody gonna go through every old post and spolier stuff? There's literally no functional usage to this stupid restriction.

 No.3639

So this has been brought to my attention over the last couple days and man, is it a doozie.

>How does everybody else feel? Please lead me your voices. Let's at least discuss this reasonably.


So far no one but staff has mentioned anything about this, so I'm willing to bet that this is just your single-minded desire.

>Those people don't people don't even fucking lurk here, not even mods, right? That's what I heard over and over again. Their supposed to be a separate community, right?


No users on discord are complaining. Staff members on the site have reached out to me about this. Most of them are the ones with problems with it, as it gets reported.

>I'm a janitor. I can't count the number of times I've deleted a barrage of spam posts at 2 or 3 in the morning. I never took breaks, not on vacation, or when I was sick, or when I had family over. Every day I diligently checked.


A mod (not a janitor, that you are the only one of) on the staff log does almost twice the work as you, and you're now actively contributing to a problem that only you seem to want to continue. Not winning points here. This is just going over a single page spanning a couple months. I'm sure it'd become more disproportionate if I went further back.

>In three days or pleading, not the 100+ people on discord, nor mods, nor writer, nor the fifteen active users here could collectively pull 55 or something dollars together. 9 people would have to give 5 dollars.


I've told Sei that at any time that hosting the site becomes untenable, I can host it out of pocket without donations, since I have a job. He wants to host it and I don't mind that, as I would have to juggle back-end and staff which would probably be too much. Also, no one notified me of such a life or death struggle for the site, so I assume it wasn't nearly as big of a deal as it was made to sound. No one mentioned anything to me, not even Sei, who knows I'd either chip in or otherwise take on the financial aspect myself.

Also here's a fun fact. When I was originally a mod, back in like 2008-2009, guro, loli, and several other types of things were outright banned. No posting it or anything, didn't matter if it was spoilered or not.

We've been more lenient now, but ask that you simply spoiler it in the meantime while we work on a more concise ruleset that leaves less kneejerk interpretation and poking at loopholes, for the sake of the users.

As it is, the fact that it's even allowed is a leniency that didn't exist in the original uboachan that rozen ran. So for now, simply just don't do it. It's easy. Spoiler your images if it's unrelated NSFW or shock porn or whatever excessive, image. Otherwise going forward it'll come with deletions and punishments until we sort things out and discuss it with the userbase (the entire userbase) as a whole.

 No.3640

>Janitors:
HoboKousaka/Kousaaka
Lumanare
Jove
>not a janitor, that you are the only one of
>only one of
While you're at fixing all the problem here, you might as well update the faq. The moderator guidelines pastie is also down.

 No.3641

>>3640
I'm the staff leader, not the person who can edit the site's static pages. Sei does that, and that page listing staff hasn't been updated in ages. Remember how I said there's a separation between running staff and the backend? Maybe you skimmed that.

3/5ths of those are not accurate in general and as a point in case is that I'm using an owner instead of admin tag while posting.

So yes, I'll fix the problems but not in the way you think it will be.

As far as the "pastie" goes, that was long ago rehosted for the sake of new mods, which you apparently didn't see or care to see, so who knows what that says.

While I'm at it, this is a great example of why we want to fix the rules and make them clearer/less abusable. You're desperate enough to latch onto the most far-field thing to try to a prove a point when other things have been refuted. Just do as we ask for the time being.

 No.3642

I don't really see this as being a very big issue. Personally, I don't like loli, but don't have an issue with people posting it. Having people spoiler those images seems like I great idea in my mind. I don't have to look at it and people can still post it. Honestly it seems like a win-win. And the difference between something like candles and horses compared to loli is that the amount of people offended by that is, almost undoubtedly, smaller than those offended by loli. And again, I agree that people should be able to post it, but what's he big deal with spoilering it?

To clarify, I am not the most active user, but do care deeply for the site. This perfectly crosses my deep love for Yume Nikki with my love for image boards. In fact this was one of the first sites I ever found when I began playing Yume Nikki for the first time. It was love at first site! I have been using this site on and off since then. It's probably been 7 some years since then. Recently I decided to play Yume 2kki and here I am.

Yes it is true we don't want the wrong crowd here (the type offended by everything) but I don't think we're very close to that. All it is is a spoiker, and I think it's also very true that loli can put off certain users, especially newer or younger ones, in the worst possible way. I mean, it doesn't really add anything to the site does it?

 No.3643

>>3642
>younger ones
What do you mean? Are eighteen year olds really that fragile? In retrospect, I probably overreacted. I regret trying to brag about anything. I'm also probably too dependent. Truth be told, I do want a walled garden, but I don't see why that's a bad thing. Do I hate, "younger people"? For the most part, yeah. Everything is terrible now and there has to be some reason for it.

I don't know what course of action to take now. I could start posting spoliered stuff in mass. I do that for ten years, any hypothetical new user will eventually click on one, and if they have that disposition, be put off and leave. Writer and gang will probably change the rules soon enough to keep me from doing that. Other option is stop posting. I know how dead this place can get. YN is getting less and less revlevant with every year. Tranlations and fangames can only keep things sputtering for so long.



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