/o/ - Art / Oekaki

A lot of new artists make the mistake of drawing people with narrow shoulders. Don't forget the shoulders, broader ones are more anatomically accurate.

>>4455
Sure but it wouldnt look that cuter.

>>4456
Looking more like a normal person and not a paraplegic with two pool noddles taped on their side would only improve the cuteness.

>>4458
Enjoy your opinion.

>>4459
There's a difference between an opinion and a fact. People who can't take criticism and insist on calling everything, including proper technique, opinions, can never improve. If you look at any popular anime or manga with cute characters, you can see that when it comes to shoulders, they're length is proportionally proper. Somewhat proper body proportions is what separates the art style typically used in Japanese drawings, which I know you are trying to emulate by the bug eyes, and western cartoons. Don't post your shit, if you don't want criticism. The head should not be wider than the shoulders, okay?

Second example

The trick for cuteness is mostly the eyes, really.

>>4463
Three of the those pictures have characters with proper shoulder proportions and one of them is in a chibish style which has its own rules like that head being more ovular in shape(where the difference between height and width is small) than egg-like. Monoe can be cute, be for her to be recognizable her eyes have to be drawn a certain way, so not, it's not just in the eyes.

>>4465
Actually, upon closer in inspection the third picture to the right actually does have regular shoulders. Chibi is more like this.

>>4465
>Monoe can be cute, be for her to be recognizable her eyes have to be drawn a certain way, so not, it's not just in the eyes.
Yes and no…

File 1 is monoe in standard anime style.
File 2 is the author trying to be edgy.
(These weren't what I'd call cute, just using them to illustrate different styles)
Now in file 3, while the eyes are closer to being like they original, the main charm is in the eyes again. I'd say monoe looks cuter in this one even if it doesn't follow the classical "big eyes" rule to show cuteness.
File 4 illustrates that you don't really need the eyes to show it's monoe if you're good enough. Cuteness comes from the size of the eyes mostly, and how the artist represented her hair in such a gorgeous way.

So yeah, eyes aren't all, but they're mostly the thing that makes something look cute or not. Things like perspective, details and symmetry are important but they aren't the main focus most of the time as the eyes are.
For the record, I'm not OP, so don't bomb me, I agree that proper shoulder size is important, that's why I posted those 4 files. I was just pointing that if anybody wanted to go for a cute style, they should focus on face features more than in shoulder size as the main "cute" point.

>>4469
Oh, yeah. I know that shoulders don't make a drawn character cute, it's just that if the shoulders are fucked up the character can't be cute. I specifically mentioned the shoulders because its one of the easiest things to fix.

>>4461
There is difference between opinion and fact and that is why I called your post an opinion, fag, there are dozens of examples of cartoons with shitty anatomy in mainstream media from Steven Universe to fucking Family Guy.
Keep enjoying your random opinion.

>>4471
Oh, you must be that faggot whose obsessed with calling everything an opinion because your self-esteem is so low that you can't possibly understand that somebodies thought could be the truth because you value what you know yourself so little. Quit projecting. You even said that stuff with poor anatomy is shitty. I'm saying what will objectively make ops art better. That's not an opinion, it's fucking technique and you are a clueless retard.

>>4472
And you must be that faggot who couldn't prove that, or this, as anything better than a random opinion. Enjoy your opinion.

>>4473
You are a stubborn moron. If op fixed the shoulders in their drawing it would look better. That is a fact. They posted it, right? They invited people to give their criticisms or as you would call them opinions. Even if proper anatomy and technique was an opinion, so what? What do you even mean by enjoy your opinion? That's a such a meaningless statement. Unless you yourself have something to contribute other than the dismissal of people's advice, fuck off retard.

>>4474
You liar, you said artists drawing characters with narrow shoulders is a mistake, that is not a fact.

>My opinion is fact
>You are a stubborn moron.
Enjoy your opinion.

>>4475
It's a mistake because it's not using proper technique. When proper technique is not used the product is worse for it. A lot of new artists don't even realize that they're doing things improperly. Go fuck yourself. Enjoy your anus.

Nice art and remember you don't always have to be anatomically correct to make a good drawing!! :)

>>4476
It's proper technique only in a specific few of the dozens of drawing styles that exist you newbie.
E.Y.O.

>>4478
What style is op going for then? Tell me? Yume Nikki is a Japanese game and Monoe is a Japanese character. It is clear that op is going for an Anime art style, and in that style it is proper technique you faggot. Even if op was going for a western cartoonish look, they would still be doing it wrong but in western cartoon the proportions of the characters are highly exaggerated, which is not the case in op's drawing. If you're claiming me to be a newbie, then you must be an expert. Show me one of your drawings then faggot. I never claimed to be an art expert, but you are claiming that i'm clueless. Prove that you know more than me or shut the fuck up. A few specific dozen styles? What the fuck does that even mean? There's literally countless art styles and almost every anime or manga, the characters have proper shoulder lengths. You're talking out of your ass because because you got butthurt about my, "opinion". You're just grasping for straws.

>>4479
>It is clear that op is going for an Anime art style, and in that style it is proper technique you faggot

Google the following japanese or -with japanese influence- things:

>Panty and Stocking with Garterbelt
>Digi Charat
>Lucky Star
>Gaia Online
>Nichijou(some characters/can vary)
>Chibi
>Ganbare Goemon
>Suzumiya Haruhi Chan no Yuutsu
>Attack on Titan Junior High.
>Hidamari Sketch
>Is the order a rabbit?
>Bottle Fairy


Enjoy your opinion.

>>4480
First of all, I said most.
>Panty and Stocking with Garterbelt
Heavily inspired by western influences, like all of trigger's shows. The art style is basically what you would find in a western cartoon. I already addressed that. Notice the heavily exaggerated proportions and rough shapes that are missing from op's drawing.
>Digi Charat
1. Chibi 2. This example doesn't work because even these characters have heads that are less wide than their shoulders
>Lucky Star
Same as the last. Their heads are not wider.
>Gaia Online
Chibi. Their heads are also not wider.
>Nichijou(some characters/can vary)
No, not even the professor is a good example.
>Chibi
I already talked about chibi, you retard, op's drawing does not follow the rules of chibi either.
>Ganbare Goemon
No, also chibi.
>Suzumiya Haruhi Chan no Yuutsu
Chibi, you fuck.
>Attack on Titan Junior High.
More chibi
>Hidamari Sketch
How dumb are you?
>Is the order a rabbit?
You must actually have a mental disability, it's almost the same as k-on
>Bottle Fairy
Chibi. Also it looks like shit. The characters look like aliens. Even this one doesn't work with the exception of a few shots in the show(which again, are chibi)

Also, even yutsu and junior high don't work that well as examples. Even if they did, chibi.

>>4482
>>4483
>>4481
>PSG influenced by western
Still anime, more japanese than you.

So for some reason chibi doesn't count to you, it's obvious their head are almost as big/as big as the line of their shoulders, thank you for proving absolutely nothing with your images, I'm sure it took some time to gather them.

I admire your dedication to this and your crusade against chibi, is Bottle Fairy ugly? I guess all the fanart it gets means no one likes it, that was your personal opinion, again.

I'd mention others like Case Closed, Yotsuba and others to see how you struggle, your opinions are amusing. I hope you're enjoying sharing your personal point of view with us.

>>4484
You completely ignored the first part of my post when I said most. You have no response to it. Did I say all, no, I didn't.
>Still anime
When you think of the typical, "anime look", panty and stocking isn't what comes to mind. The character designs of the main characters are that of a western cartoon. Did you read my previous posts?
>Somewhat proper body proportions is what separates the art style typically used in Japanese drawings, which I know you are trying to emulate by the bug eyes, and western cartoons.
Do you know what the word typically means? Panty and stocking does does not look like a typical anime, it looks like a cartoon and it follows the design rules of a cartoon, so it does not matter that it is Japanese. Op's drawing however does not follow those rules. It is closer to looking like the type of style used in MOST anime.
>So for some reason chibi doesn't count to you, it's obvious their head are almost as big/as big as the line of their shoulders
Chibi, "doesn't count to me", because I already talked about how op's drawing isn't chibi. Also, your examples suck because in none of them the head is noticeably wider than the shoulders. They're almost or just as wide, not far wider like in op's drawing.
>Three of the those pictures have characters with proper shoulder proportions and one of them is in a chibish style which has its own rules like that head being more ovular in shape(where the difference between height and width is small) than egg-like.
Op's drawing does not follow the rules of chibi, so it cannot be called chibi.
>your crusade against chibi
I do not have a crusade against chibi, and you only think that because you have a mental disability.
>fanart it gets means no one likes it
Did I say that bottle fairy looking like shit was an objective fact? Also, just because something is popular, that doesn't make it good. My opinion on the show is irrelevant. Do you really want me to say that something is an opinion every single time that I say an opinion? Oh, wait, the exception to that is when i'm sucking off something, you don't need to say that it's an opinion when you do that. That's such an unbelievably stupid way to think.
>Case Closed, Yotsuba
I don't feel like wasting more time on your pointless examples. In Conan, the characters with a bobble head are chibi. Even then, Conan's shoulders are almost straight and clearly defined unlike what's in op's drawing where the shoulders heavily slope. In yotsuba the main character has no shoulders for comedic effect. Op's drawing has a character who does have shoulders, but they are one not clearly defined and two the character is not chibi. Both of those examples don't justify Op's shoulders. In the type of chibi where the head is totally massive, the character practically doesn't have shoulders, in the type of chibi that you brought up in your examples, the shoulders are very straight and noticeable. Op's drawing does not fall under either of these two categories. I still don't get why your panties get in a twist so much when somebody shares a negative, "opinion". Is op's drawing perfect in your eyes? Is it? Because the whole point of this thread is to share what could be improved. You have contributed nothing to that.

I don't even know anymore if this is legit a retard arguing against an obvious troll, or a master troll pretending to be retard in order to confuse a lesser troll making him think that he is in fact a retard just to shit a whole thread. Either way, one of you guys is a top-notch fool, and by the looks of it the one writing less seems to be the most intelligent one.

This is kind of bullshit is acceptable in /hikki/ because it's a containment board, but keep it away from the rest of the site, please. Seriously.

>>4486
>keep it away from the rest of the site, please. Seriously.
Sorry, I didn't know you were a mod and police of the site. Not every single person is a troll. What's so obvious about enjoy your opinion guy? Most trolls wouldn't put in the effort to make a list of examples to try to prove their argument. If you don't like arguing, you could just actually contribute to the thread instead of paying attention to it.

>>4487
In case you don't know, some people like to keep things with quality in smaller chans. You shitted a thread with this stupid "discussion" between you and a troll; read the rules mate, they're there for a reason. Rule 14, literally there.

>What's so obvious about enjoy your opinion guy? Most trolls wouldn't put in the effort to make a list of examples to try to prove their argument.
Are you really…? You are new here, aren't you?
I once spent a whole week shitting on a forum doing things more complicated that make a list up for you to analyze, never underestimate how low people can go just for fun. It's OBVIOUS he's a troll, he's literally using the same words in every post and giving bait "arguments" just because you get triggered by them, and worse, you actually reply long-ass posts trying to counter those "arguments".

>If you don't like arguing, you could just actually contribute to the thread instead of paying attention to it.
This isn't arguing, dude, you're literally feeding a troll who only says "Enjoy your opinion", for fucks sake. If you can't differentiate between a troll and somebody who is arguing then you really need to quit the internet, and swallow two kilograms of ritalin. You could have "ignored the shoulder problem" the same way I could have ignored "the very educative and incredibly beneficial discussion you two gentlemen seem to be holding today in the Academy of Mighty Anatomical Art and Internet Opinions.". There is literally nothing being discussed here.

Now please, could you leave?

>>4488
Did this thread ever have an actual point to it? How can a thread be derailed if it never had a set topic in the first place? I was talking about op's drawing the entire time. I kept mentioning it. Also, I'm pretty sure that telling somebody to commit suicide is against rule 6.
>giving bait "arguments"
Give me an example of a, "bait", argument.
>you're literally feeding a troll who only says "Enjoy your opinion"
They said a lot more than that.
>You could have "ignored the shoulder problem"
Tell me what the point of this thread is if not to criticize op's art? Even if this guy is a troll, that doesn't change the fact that arguing, or whatever you feel like calling it, is the most exciting part of my day. I enjoy trying to pick apart arguments regardless of how dumb or, "baity", they are. When you get mod privileges you can tell people what they can and can't post about. But that's just an opinion. The opinion that it's an opinion is an opinion. Enjoy your opinion.

>>4489
>Did this thread ever have an actual point to it? How can a thread be derailed if it never had a set topic in the first place? I was talking about op's drawing the entire time. I kept mentioning it. Also, I'm pretty sure that telling somebody to commit suicide is against rule 6.
Okay okay, I will spell slowly things for you. First, OP is posting art, there's nothing wrong with suggesting anything to OP about art as you did. However, derailing his art thread into "I'm right ur worng" tier shit with a random troll is called "derailing" here, and anywhere else. Second, ritalin is so you calm the fuck down and stop sperging to obvious bait, jesus christ.

>Give me an example of a, "bait", argument.
I will give you better. See this post here? https://uboachan.net/t/res/973.html#1558
It's called "Look at your hand". It's an internal joke we ran for some time until everyone knew what it really meant. Do you know how it worked? Somebody tried discussing anything and no matter what they said you only replied with half-assed arguments and attached a "Look at your hand" at the end of the post to mock the other party, because they actually spent time and put thought in what they wrote even though sadly they did not realize they were arguing with a troll. Does that ring a bell?

>They said a lot more than that.
You yourself acknowledge those things are terribly half-assed, how come you can't even see they are made like that on purpose?

>Tell me what the point of this thread is if not to criticize op's art?
For OP to post art, not to derail so you can have some action in your shitty life, go to 4chan for that. OP hasn't even replied back to you ever, for all we know.

>>4490
>However, derailing his art thread into "I'm right ur worng" tier shit with a random troll is called "derailing" here
I went with the flow of the conversation. I responded to somebody and they responded back. Is replying to somebody in a thread when they are not being on topic derailing? I don't see how i'm at fault.
>Do you know how it worked? Somebody tried discussing anything and no matter what they said you only replied with half-assed arguments and attached a "Look at your hand" at the end of the post to mock the other party
That guy literally just said the same thing. That the other guy was being 2 deep 4 u. The retort to that would very simply be yes. It's pretty simple to spot a troll when somebody accuses you of being too deep or using a fallacy or something. The guy I was responding to didn't say my opinion was invalid just because of something as arbitrary as being 2 deep. They actually responded to the points I was making instead of outright dismissing them.
>You yourself acknowledge those things are terribly half-assed
I don't see them as being half-assed as much as just ignoring what I already said.
>go to 4chan for that
4chan is too shitty. Literally all of the threads in b are either post x pics or this is the x thread.

>>4490
Also, i'm pretty sure 2 kilograms of Ritalin is a lethal dosage.

SEI

Holy balls calm down. Please keep discussions outside of /ot/ civil. This can keep being a conversation about art if it stops being a conversation about an argument about a conversation. Everyone please take a step back and breathe for a second.

Reminder that even Picasso's contorted proportions are world-famous, and he was a master at "realistic" still life portraiture, which does require some exaggeration of both perspective and chiascuro to achieve the desired effect.

Point being that all art is interpretive, that everyone sees the world differently, and so naturally everyone is going to draw differently. It's a good thing.

And the best thing is to just keep making art!

>>4496
Picasso learned the rules before he broke them though. He knew how to make something that was unconventional look good because he understood the conventional. That's part of why his work is considered revolutionary. Just saying.

Haha, oh wow