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/ig/ - RPGMaker / Gamedev

RPGMaker Help and Indie Game Development
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 No.81

I kind of have an idea for a topic but idk if it's been a topic before. What are your favorite parts of a game and what's overused in your own opinion? Everyone has a differing opinion about what's good and what's bad in a game, so what's yours?

 No.88

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I like extremely shocking plot twists, I like to see innocent looking characters that end being atrocious liars, I like multiple endings on a game only of those make sense.
I love politically incorrect or controversial characters, for the sake of realism, I like realistic games.
I think racial/gender/whatever diversity in games is not necessary, a character should be white, black, asian or whatever if it fits the environment of the game.
I like VNs with deep dialogues that cause you to be thinking about it for days, for example this image.
I also like to see characters that have opposite or very different personalities with the rest, but that's just me.
As for the things I don't like, here's a list:
>>>/ot/12668

 No.123

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>>88

>I think racial/gender/whatever diversity in games is not necessary, a character should be white, black, asian or whatever if it fits the environment of the game.


If everyone thought like this then fiction as we know it would not exist

 No.124

>>123
If diversity was obligatory our society would be a snowflakey extension of fagblr.

 No.125

File: 1459644911733.png (1.12 MB, 827x1169, 48841178_p0.png)

>>123
>If everyone thought like this then fiction as we know it would not exist
So, you have never read anything pre-tumblr?

 No.128

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>>125
Also, to contribute with the thread:
I like themes that deal with how the characters face their situations more than the situation itself. I mean, for example, princess tutu had a pretty basic plot but I liked it because of the conflict that existed due to the different postures each character had. I like to see characters struggling with their ideals, what they believe to be right, what reality really is and what they can actually do (or not). Humans can be stubborn creatures who will hold their beliefs to the very end, and thus they are bond to commit errors, even when their actions may not necessarily be the "wrong ones". There are also times when we can't do something, even if we believe it's the correct course of action to take.
Bonus if the actions of the protagonist change the course of the game. I like it when interacting with other characters in a certain way can have a really negative/positive impact in the development later. Sakura Taisen did a great job with something like this, since the performance of each character on battle depends on how well the MC gets along with them.

Another thing I like is symbology/mythology. As a /x/ephile deep-fag, I can't help but feel attracted to that kind of shit. Specially because it requires more action from the player than the developer itself. Not even ultra-encrypted and secret bullshit; having references to made-up mythology in a style such as Lovecraft's is enough to please me. Hell, I loved Necronomicon just for that, even when they didn't create anything of the background history. Tamashii no Mon was pure gold, I really love christian themes if they're well played and they don't go for the cliché "fight against demons" bullshit (unless it's a run'n shoot like DOOM).
I'm also a big fan of mystery. Close to this genre is the "reality-is-broken" stuff or creepy plots that are presented slowly. The leaf VN series (Shizuku, Kizuato) were great, or even higurashi with all the "Something big is happening in the background and here are the pieces you have to join to make the big picture out" feeling (It's regrettable that the author fucked up with the biggest bullshit ever in the end).
Even simple stuff like EVE was pretty good and enjoyable.

Sci-fi dystopian and themes are pretty good too if the plot is well thought. Policenauts, Snatcher; I've been a great fan of those games for years. Anything tech/cyb related has high chances of catching my interest. And surprisingly enough, this genre hasn't been exploted yet.

I love endings where everyone dies a la EoE, but this kind of thing isn't well done most of the times so it's hard to find something good with that.

And lastly, violence. I'm a big ryona fan, and I wish there were more games to play. But hitting girls with light clothes is really pleasant, moreso if there's vore included.

 No.129

>>81
I like having to deal with the consequences of my actions.

 No.130

>>129
What I mean by this being allowed moral choices. You know, something like having the option to dick around in caves for the whole game and then the world ends because you refused to be the main character and stop the bad guy.

 No.131

>>88
Ideally, I think diversity in a game should be done whenever there's not a good reason not to, because blacks/Asians/whatever have a right to see characters who look like them in media but shoehorning it in against common sense is just dumb.

 No.132

>>131
That's why I said
>a character should be white, black, asian or whatever if it fits the environment of the game.
There are plenty of ways creators can add different races to their casts in a solid scenario if they want.
Just including them just "for the sake of diversity" is mediocre.
Morals/what's right and what's wrong, shouldn't be relevant, hell if I want my main character to be a racist homophobic rapist pedophile who saves the world, and it makes a solid storyline, why not?

 No.135

>>132
>racist homophobic rapist pedophile who saves the world
That would be really interesting, actually. Do you think it would work or would the player end up hating their character so much that they just give up in disgust?

 No.136

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>>135
>That would be really interesting, actually.
You should really play UAB. It's basically that except for the "rapist" part.
>Do you think it would work or would the player end up hating their character so much that they just give up in disgust?
I loved bernie, he was like my brother. But maybe that's because I'm a bern too.

 No.138

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>>135
It would, in GTA you play as a ghetto shithead drug dealer, thief, and serial killer, and it's praised as if it was game of the decade.

In the indie world a western example would be Yandere Simulator, you play as a manipulative bitch, stalker, bully, torturer, blackmailer and serial killer who is plotting to do LITERALLY ANYTHING to have their senpai's love.

So… I don't see why not.

There are lots of games with characters who are much worse than that, specially in the japanese scene, there's always people who will have taste for anything that can be written.

It would work wonderfully, even more considering that around here the idea of having such monstruous being as hero would boost moral debates, reviews and articles everywhere, it happens always, just look at rapelay, there are thousands of games where you play a rapist, but that one was popular around here in the West, and dev san in rich.
Or, I could make a VN about waifus and memes, yeah, that will do.

 No.141

>>138
Do you know of any games where you play the villain of the story rather than just a really unpleasant person? (Disgaea is the only one I can think of) Being an evil overlord is fun.

 No.142

>>141
Games where you play as "clean" villians… Overlord, Prototype, God of War, Resident Evil operation racoon… Infamous gives you the choice.

As for the indie market, I can't think anything that is not too shitty, or too fucked up.

 No.144

>>142
>too fucked up.
Elaborate.

 No.145

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>>144
Eh, you know, popular indiejap genres, eroguro, vore, literally any ryona, etc, they come in all shapes, sidescrollers, shooters, VNs. It can go as low as you want.
Not that I have a hidden folder with such content, or anything, baka.

 No.147

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ITT

 No.160

I like boss fights that are also puzzles, where the way you're supposed to fight it isn't obvious straight away and you gotta use your loaf. I think that's a lot more interesting than just having a really big strong monster.

 No.167

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>>125

I take it that you're not the type who reads much outside of internet arguments if the notion of a fleshed out fictional setting triggers you this hard.

 No.168

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>>167
>I take it that you're not the type who reads much outside of internet arguments if the notion of a fleshed out fictional setting triggers you this hard.
So, okay, are you telling me that authors outside tumblr do actually and actively work to have diversity on their cast of characters just for the sake of social justice and to show how society should be?
I must have been reading pretty obscure shit for many years then, because I never saw any author being this retarded.

 No.169

>>167
So you're implying diversity for the sake of diversity is needed for fiction to exist?

I can only get that because your passive agressive tumblrina post isn't giving an actual argument.

 No.170

>>169
>>168

>are you telling me that authors outside tumblr do actually and actively work to have diversity on their cast of characters just for the sake of social justice and to show how society should be?


That is quite literally not what I'm saying at all but keep projecting aniki. I'm not even saying that you need to include every kind of every ground in an isolated story – and adding to that, over ambitious things like that usually result in failure. I'm just asking you what it means to 'fit' the environment of a game. The way the point in the original post was poised implied that certain people exist as a default human and that anyone else included that breaks the mold is automatically forced and created with ulterior motives. In spite of >hurr durr tumblr suspicions this literally does not happen in real life.

Do Heather Mason or Angela 'fit' the environment of Silent Hill any better than James does? Does Alyx from HL being blasian 'fit' the environment? Does The Boss literally being the strongest character in the Metal Gear universe 'fit' the environment? Does the fact that Yoji Shinkawa has stated that the reason Raiden is so sensitive and effeminate is because he's supposed to be "unisexual" so that both male and female players can project themselves onto him even though he's always in he face of death and danger 'fit' the environment?

Again, I'm not saying that every game ever needs to be inclusive of literally everyone. The ultimate meat of this discussion is that evaluating characters for how they superficially appear (in your mind) to fill some quota by virtue of being 'different' as opposed to how they're written and interwoven into a story is reductive and harmful for fiction as a whole.

 No.171

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>>170
First, I'm not even the anon you think I am ( >>88 ).
Okay, I could make a long post stating with what I agree and I don't but I will make it fast.

>keep projecting aniki.

You are the only one projecting m8. Specially with this part
>The way the point in the original post was poised implied that certain people exist as a default human and that anyone else included that breaks the mold is automatically forced and created with ulterior motives.
As I read it anon pretty much said the same shit you did in this last post. You're just being picky over words and twisting them to make it look like something else. You know what anon implied, I know what anon implied, but you decided to make it a "muh ideals & superficially worldly perception" bullshit. In fact, I'm pretty sure >>132 is the original poster you intended to reply (I may be wrong, if he's still around he can confirm).

 No.172

>>170
>Again, I'm not saying that every game ever needs to be inclusive of literally everyone.
That's awesome we agree then, that's exactly what I say, not everything needs to be fiting, nothing is absolute, but making games with a diverse cast for the sake of diversity is mediocre writing.

 No.173

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>>171

>You know what anon implied, I know what anon implied, but you decided to make it a "muh ideals & superficially worldly perception" bullshit


You're missing the core of this discussion

>What does it mean to fit an environment

>When has forced diversity ever been actually implemented in any notable work of fiction in real life

It's a non issue that carries consequences if people treat it as a real issue.

 No.174

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>>173
>It's a non issue that carries consequences if people treat it as a real issue.

 No.176

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>>175
>that only makes sense if the diverse cast is somehow the story, if the plot were somehow 1) "i am a black gay blind woman."

>and not for example 2) "i am a fighter pilot from the planet mars in 30XX who must defeat the new spacelord zardoth with my psychic rocketship, AND I ALSO HAPPEN TO BE a black gay blind woman"

Wrong, "diversity for the sake of diversity" can be completely unfitting, you were kind enough to give an example so I'll show you what I mean with "diversity for the sake of diversity":

>Ok I'm a dev, ok.

>Here's my game, it's about a zombie apocalypse
>Local group of people hide in a police station.
>Cast: Lebanese rapper, indian warrior from the minhas clan, trans korean woman with autism, and a chechen demiboy stargender with an impressive record of mental illnesses.
>Location: from Cerro Sombrero(600 habitants, South America)

>the only time people get so upset over "diversity for diversity's sake" seems to be, conveniently for them, when there is any diversity at all

>Assumptions
I don't think I can complain about Soul Calibur, Final Fantasy, or Street Fighter, they have very well placed diverse casts.
SNK also makes some well executed characters from diverse regions.

If you want indies, I think indivisible is awesome, a great example of a game with diverse cast, which is not ridiculous, they had a problem before because they seemed to be adding them arbitrarily, but it was solved with good character development.

There is a LOT of AWESOME diversity in videogames ALREADY, hell, female characters kick ass nowdays.

tl;dr:
Diversity in games where it fits: Good.
Diversity in games for the sake of diversity: SJW shit fuck off to tumblr please.

 No.177

>>175
tfw I'll never have convicted child rapist woman beater MC
Where is diversity ;_;
#triggered
#NotAllRapists
#Feminism

 No.178

>>177
/loli/ was making one, but I abandoned 8shit because it was worse than reddit.
With some luck there may be a demo by now, if they didn't abandon it.

As and alternative, there's always the chance to play UAB.

 No.182

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>>179
Man, he gave you an example to illustrate what is a "poorly done" excuse for a game plot that focused on "my diversity ideals" idea. It was meant to be bad example, the fact that you twisted it completely on a wall of text to circlejerk and bringing "white supremacy" tier stuff in while disregarding the main point of discussion is just… I don't even know how to qualify it aside from dense.
Do you want to be the one holding the absolute truth all the time that badly?

 No.186

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>>184
>>185
No mate, no… look, let's do it with letters, it will be easier to understand.
He said 'A' is a good idea (Regardless of what A may or may not be, and if anybody likes it or not).
'B' isn't. (Regardless of what B may or may not be, and if anybody likes it or not).
Based on this, he can say that 'A' plots are better than 'B'.
You replied with a post saying "OH, but 'B' may be actually my favorite color, therefore it's not bad!". Valid, it could be, but it's not the point that was being discussed And also, it could be a dead child for all we know, in the same way I can argue that it sure won't something you may like.
If you fail to understand this then there's no point in discussing at all because you will try to find rebuttals for whatever anyone says just like a 13 years old regardless of how good their points may or may not be.

Also, if you reread his post, you will notice that anon later adds that diversity is okay if well applied (A detail that you skillfully and completely ignored in your post but made a giant wall of anyway) right here:
>I don't think I can complain about Soul Calibur, Final Fantasy, or Street Fighter, they have very well placed diverse casts.
>SNK also makes some well executed characters from diverse regions
>I think indivisible is awesome, a great example of a game with diverse cast, which is not ridiculous, they had a problem before because they seemed to be adding them arbitrarily, but it was solved with good character development
>There is a LOT of AWESOME diversity in videogames ALREADY, hell, female characters kick ass nowdays.

The point isn't whatever you are trying to drive the topic to. Hell, we all have stated already what we think about this. It's okay if it isn't fucking retarded, but putting a nig-nog, a chinese, a fat white faggot and a trans midget on an adventure to find the mystic dildo isn't a good plot if you plan to illustrate what "Muh so pure socially diverse casting" and all the game is about is circlejerk about muh oppression, triggers and why white male alpha is bad instead of whatever you can think of to make it better.

 No.187

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>>186
Non-sarcastically saying, yeah, I misread. I'm so sorry. I'm used to dealing with more brusque people who are totally against any of this at all so I projected that onto you guys. We actually agree. Jesus.
I got swept up; some of what you guys said resembles what I've seen a bajillion times, so I completely fucked it. It's been a stressful past few days with little sleep, and then I decided to come here and stomp around being stupid. I can't even explain how I fucked up.

Sorry, anon. That was a lot of trouble for nothing. Thanks for being patient and not writing me off with a meme pic and a parting jab.

 No.188

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>>187
>Thanks for being patient and not writing me off with a meme pic and a parting jab.
I was actually very tempted to do this but I don't want this board to die on cancer and pointless drama so soon.
It's okay, I actually wish more people backed off a discussion when they realize they weren't completely right on this or that.
Have a nice night.

 No.189

File: 1461078615795.gif (3.2 MB, 694x386, takingnotes.gif)

>>186
>a nig-nog, a chinese, a fat white faggot and a trans midget on an adventure to find the mystic dildo
GOTY here I go



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