/hikki/ - NEET / Advice

the only reason i'm posting here is to help this thread grow because I feel like this will be a good thread.

why do you think that anon

>>6971
because I want to see what a scitzoids life is like and why they became NEET'S.

but why

>>6970
anon this entire board is filled with schizos, and I don't mean the schizoid kind. you literally have some fag spamming this board everyday with schizo messages and nobody gives a fuck, and when any discussion happens its just flamebaiting. you're probably not gonna get any decent discussion.

as for my opinion, schizoids just seem to be [VAGUE LABEL], like all other shit from the DSM. its very easy to diagnose a schizoid with clinical depression and vice versa. focus on your environment and train of thought first and pills second, they barely do anything without the former.

i m sorry

i don t care about anything

i m out

>>6977
When I looked this up, all I could think was "Is this seriously considered a disorder?" It just sounds like valuing different things. And apparently if you don't value what normies value, that makes you ill?

Maybe it's more complicated then that, but to me it just sounds like anyone who deviates from the norm is immediately labeled "ill", when really, it's probably moreso the fact that we're born into a culture that doesn't accommodate us that's the problem.

>>6980
yes and no, to some extent it is being different from normie values. but at the same time, it does have some effects that very much do set it as a disorder for various reasons.

it tends to cause a permanent malaise, severe detachment from emotions, severe damage to the ability to form emotional connections to anything amongst other issues.

in essence, it's like being a sociopath without the benefit of being a sociopath and with some of the negatives of severe depression permanently thrown into the mix. forever wanting human contact yet being unable to connect with people in any way is not a fun way to be.
though understanding just how much of this is disorder and how much is just the modern world being fucked is still undecided given that therapists and psychologists are more incompetent than ever.

>>6982
>forever wanting human contact yet being unable to connect with people in any way is not a fun way to be.

Can confirm lol. I'm a little confused on what constitutes schizoid personality disorder. Every source i've found has claimed "Neither desires nor enjoys close relationships, including being part of a family." as a symptom. Yeah, the inability to do so is also mentioned, but it seems a lack of desire itself constitutes a symptom.

As an aside, I found an interesting wikipedia extract on the subject. "Some critics such as Nancy McWilliams of Rutgers University and Parpottas Panagiotis of European University Cyprus argue that the definition of SPD is flawed due to cultural bias and that it does not constitute a mental disorder but simply an avoidant attachment style requiring more distant emotional proximity. If that is true, then many of the more problematic reactions these individuals show in social situations may be partly accounted for by the judgements commonly imposed on people with this style. However, impairment is mandatory for any behaviour to be diagnosed as a personality disorder. SPD seems to satisfy this criterion because it is linked to negative outcomes. These include a significantly compromised quality of life, reduced overall functioning even after 15 years and one of the lowest levels of "life success" of all personality disorders (measured as "status, wealth and successful relationships"). However, determination of what qualify as "impairments" or as "negative outcomes" is itself potentially subject to cultural bias. People with SPD may not regard a lack of social-status or successful relationships, for example, as a harm. Furthermore, correlation with negative outcomes does not necessarily demonstrate that these outcomes were directly caused by the schizoidal traits. Rather, it may be that these outcomes are the result of discrimination against people with SPD, who may be viewed as abnormal."

but yeah i agree anhedonia and emotional detachment are problems. But given that those are symptoms of lots of things, I sorta wonder whether SPD itself has any value as a distinct diagnosis.

>>6980
>but to me it just sounds like anyone who deviates from the norm is immediately labeled "ill"
yes, shit like ODD exists

>>6980
>>6983
While it comes off as just a personality type, there is definitely something going on in the brain that I think qualifies it as a non-disruptive disorder. There are things that I and other people diagnosed share that we have no business sharing due to how different our circumstances were/are. Regardless of time and place, even across continents, cultures and upbringing, we share very specific traits, actions we take/activities we do, and interests. It's not just 'you dont like people but are lonely' as it tends to be portrayed, though that is the core of it.
The issue with mental disorder diagnosis is that it requires the diagnosed disorder to cause negative outcomes. I don't believe SPD causes negative outcomes on it's own. You're far more likely to get a bad life from chronic depression than if you exclusively have SPD. I believe that it's a disorder in the sense that there are wires crossed in the brain that are not meant to be crossed in such a way by default.

I find it hard to describe what exactly I mean about shared traits and what makes it different from a personality type. I'm an examples person my brain works on imagery and comparisons, technical description and writing isn't my strength. If you'd like I could perhaps use myself or characters from media to express how an individual with SPD experiences life in a uniquely different way than both healthy people and those with other mental disorders.

>>7021
Just for the record, in order for a set of exhibited experiences or behaviors to be considered a "personality disorder", it isn't even necessarily a prerequisite that the brain be "wired" abnormally. From wikipedia on personality disorders: "Personality disorders (PD) are a class of mental disorders characterized by enduring maladaptive patterns of behavior, cognition, and inner experience, exhibited across many contexts and deviating from those accepted by the individual's culture. These patterns develop early, are inflexible, and are associated with significant distress or disability."

That's an important distinction because, in order for a personality disorder to be diagnosed, all that is required is that you meet the behavioral or experiential criteria laid out (Typically the ones laid out in the ICD or DSM.) It could be, that you meet those criteria, but there isn't necessarily any abnormalities in your brain.

So when you say "I believe that it's a disorder in the sense that there are wires crossed in the brain that are not meant to be crossed in such a way by default.", while this could be the case, and it very well may be the case, it isn't a necessity that it be the case for you to be considered a schizoid. It is actually the personality itself that is the object of the diagnosis, not some abnormality of the brain it indicates. Obviously, PD's aren't pointless diagnosis's, since individuals experiencing them often experience distress as a result. But what about when they don't? Can you even call it a disorder? I'd argue not.
…At least, that's what my infinitesimally small understanding of personality disorders is. I don't really believe anything I say with certainty.

>If you'd like I could perhaps use myself or characters from media to express how an individual with SPD experiences life in a uniquely different way than both healthy people and those with other mental disorders.

I'm interested.

>>7023
But reading through this, I just realized that I inadvertently made an argument in favor of SPD as a diagnosis.

>Obviously, PD's aren't pointless diagnosis's, since individuals experiencing them often experience distress as a result. But what about when they don't? Can you even call it a disorder? I'd argue not.

If you flip this around, the conclusion becomes "If the set of behaviors or experiences DOES cause distress, then SPD is useful as a diagnosis"

>>7023
> It is actually the personality itself that is the object of the diagnosis, not some abnormality of the brain it indicates.
Some personality disorders have diagnosis criteria that I would not call personality traits though. Most of them have widely recognized symptoms that aren't part of the diagnosis criteria either, but are seen in pretty much every person with the disorder in question. The name personality disorder is bad I think, the definition itself is far broader than just personality.
The whole field of medical psychology looks like a circus to me though so what do I know lol. I'm no professional.

>I'm interested.
I have two examples. One is from a video game and is the bulk of this text because it requires explanation. The 2nd is a character from a book that I recommend reading or listening to, it's only a few hours long and youtube has plenty of readings. The book is called The Stranger by Albert Camus, it's a good portrayal that represents SPD very well as a whole. It's from the main characters perspective so it gets you inside his mind and how he thinks and views things.

The other character is the Outsider from Dishonored. He doesn't really represent SPD as a whole, but the social/emotional aspects that people would typically see are well represented by him. He lives the perfect schizoid life.

The most obvious part I think is that the Outsider lives within The Void, a world he can shape to his will and is kind of like a dream. When he wants to interact with the real world he can without any issue. This is like the schizoid fantasy that every person with SPD has. Since people with SPD don't have superpowers though retreating into a fantasy life is an unhealthy daydream at best :). It's easy to get so lost in your fantasies you mix up real memories and fantasy ones.

The Outsider also gets to have relationships entirely on his own terms. He appears and disappears on a whim, only interacting with others when he feels like it. He chooses a few favorites to fulfill all his social needs. However, these favorites have no way to contact the Outsider in return.
This is exactly how someone with SPD wants relationships to be. A few good friends who they see when they need to be social, but only when THEY need it. It's like being hungry, once you've eaten you don't care about food anymore. It's very contradictory because of the two extremes. Schizoids need the acceptance of their friends, but at the same time they don't want to provide anything for those friends.

The Outsider hides his true self from the people he interacts with, to the point where there are no cracks in his persona until the final game that is focused entirely on seeing who he really is. This fits into the idea of having 'overt' and 'covert' personality traits. He presents himself as impersonal, self-sufficient, and stoic. In reality this is to cover up his jealousy of regular people, his reliance on others, and his lack of any strong feelings towards anything. The overt personality is common and diverts attention away from the schizoid because it leaves very little for people to think about.

I'm tired of writing.

>>7073
Thank you for the analysis. Sounds a bit like what I'm going through.

Not pleasant.