i was seconds away from starting the new theory thread
drew a pretty picture for it and everything
oh ok dude
Considering one of the most useful effects is the broom, maybe the FC Witch is her mother. Or, the Viscera woman is an abusive mother. Or maybe, she's her aunt.
Sorry for digging up an old thread when we have a newer, I'm slow and thought this was a theory thread for Viscera only or Sabitsuki's mother. I will try to delete this post and the post before, but, I am not very good with doing that. It will take me awhile though since the post hasn't shown up in this thread yet unless you look at the .Flow list of threads.
It keeps saying wrong password, so, I can't really delete them. If a mod or something is able to delete them, please do.
Since this got bumped, this might as well be the new theory thread since the other one is at it's bump limit.
What if .Flow is supposed to be a sequel to Yume Nikki? Madotsuki didn't jump from very high, and only got injured. The stress from almost dying turned her hair white. The things from the past that made Madotsuki jump in the first place ate her up(The theories about Sabitsuki's past are also things that happened to Madotsuki). The apartment is a mental hospital.
Basically, Madotsuki's window frame is rusting. Derp derp.
- old uboachan theory thread (must read! As in "New York Times best seller")>>5
- other, more giant (though technically younger) theory thread
We can at least link the "old" threads, if this is gonna be the new one. And those links should be put in the OP too…whenever we get that edit button.
If anything represents cancer or disease, it's those little red creatures. Considering,
-The black-haired girls are completely sentient towards Sabitsuki; they never try to harm her or corrupt her or anything of the sort
-all the black-haired girls get destroyed when the little red creatures are running amok at the same time Sabitsuki becomes Rust
-the first time Sabitsuki witnesses the giantess bleeding to death, Sabitsuki bleeds for real when she wakes up
I think those black-haired girls are Sabitsuki herself. Maybe they're what Sabitsuki looked like in a hospital gown before her hair turned white. If that's what she used to look like, it doesn't seem very unlikely that Sabitsuki would have dreams about tiny clones of herself running around inside her body and keeping a disease from spreading, does it?
We probably won't get an edit button.
Interesting, but what are the Kaibutsu, Smile, Sister, and Oreko?
Nevermind, we actually might get one anyways http://uboachan.net/sugg/res/33.html
So here's my theory.
THE ENTIRE THING IS ABOUT HER HAVING PMS.
.Flow. Period Flow.
Lots of blood.
The dark haired girls inside the uterus are probably eating her uterus lining, and when you're on your period, you're losing uterus lining.
Rust is just her after playing in her period blood.
Smile is her boyfriend and he likes to rub his eyes in her bloody vagina.
*CLAP CLAP CLAP*
Okay man listen what if the reason why you can see ghost oreko AND oreko in the same .flow session is because Oreko was sabitsuki's imaginary friend and in sabi's ~*~ imagination ~*~ she had the same disease as most children in the hospital
Then when they died sabi was pretty sure oreko died too
Also it's why ghost oreko appears one door before normal oreko?
Clearly it means Sabitsuki mother thought she was a mistake.
But then you can go back and see living Oreko.
I really don't get your point.
in the same dream you can see both dead and alive oreko because they are from different memories
I just had a flowception Oreko theory:
As Sabi goes into flow with her computer, Oreko does the same with her computer machine in the underwater house.
So, wait, they are both separate flow-ers… flowers? Flow players? I don't even fucking know. Anyways, so they are both separate flowers, entering the same session, or Oreko is part of Sabi's flow session, and then enters her own flow session?
>>1502>or Oreko is part Sabi's flow session, and then enters her own flow session?
This is what I thought, but who knows…
Perhaps she and Sabi are the only infected children that are able to succesfully enter flow?
Smile/sister may be the first persons who somewhat fully entered there and now refuse to get out, corrupting the flow world or something.
Something in the lines of Serial Experiments Lain? or GitS:Solid State Society?
You know how in .Flow, there are certain places that you can't enter?
Specifically, the one room where if you try to enter, no matter if you are Sabi or Rust, your head starts busting and you bleed to death and then wake up?
I was thinking, maybe flow sessions are supposed to be fixed to be everyones personal worst nightmares, but because Oreko enters her session at the same time as Sabi, it fucks up Sabi's session and puts her in Oreko's session instead. Sabi's session was originally supposed to be more terrifying. Because possibly flow sessions aren't supposed to overlap, there were glitches with Oreko's session where things from Sabi's session would leak into it, and certain parts, if she tried to enter, would glitch up and kill her?
fascinating theory, but I'm more at amazed at how easily people in these threads jump to such far-out conclusions.
Call me unimaginative, but I can't help but feel .flow is a pretty standard Yume Nikki scenario with supernatural elements displacing the normal dream sequence. I don't think we're supposed to understand what .flow is, mainly because it is so vaguely defined that I get the feeling even lol only has a loose idea of what it is and how it works. Looking into the mechanics of something like this is probably a bad idea. But maybe that's just me
youre not alone, i agree
We (at least I) don't pretend to "understand .flow" because it's deliberately ambiguous, as all YN like games, and closer to a painting than to a storytelling, linear game.
I just keep getting this feeling of amazement, intrigue, and that I keep getting closer to some kind of understanding while never actually catching it, like the horizon.>Looking into the mechanics of something like this is probably a bad idea
I just love this kind of shit. Not that I "believe" the theories I made as a matter of fact, I'm just kind of brainstorming and wandering.
Yeah you're right. Half the fun of these games is thinking of ideas more creative than the subject matter.I wish I were so carefree
By the way, has anyone figured out a good idea for how smile fits in?
I notice his positioning in the credits seem to put him in the centre of the Kaibutsu pack, not a good sign. Further, there is mouth iconography modelled off him everywhere in the school and this seems to tie in with the rusting mouth background in the body area. Since rust actually has to acquire a GET from a gigantic rusting smile in the school, it seems pretty clear smile is somehow related to the condition.
I feel like I'm probably pretty close to figuring this out, but it evades me currently. The various rooms in the school seem to indicate he murders a bunch of students and commits suicide on the roof, but I can't seem to understand how he is related to sabi and the condition. Perhaps a warning of what is to come?
Also. How do we know smile is male?
not to mention, what is up with this bleeding eye iconography in the school portraits. You see a giant eye modelled off this in the apartments as well. It doesn't seem to factor into the rust disease in any other way seemingly. Maybe just a way of associating the school with smile definitively?
I'd say so, yes
Though lacking the evidence to back it up, the way I saw it was that no matter what part of school she was in Smile would always be in the back of her mind
True true. I understand you're the fellow who claims to have the all-encompassing theory. So uh, what do you think smile is?
Also. Something I've noticed about that .jpg I posted. Notice how the first room with smile and the kids has one crossed eye, while the second has two? I don't think that is necessarily coincidence, it seems to demonstrates progression in illness. Both eyes becoming crossed.
So you believe Smile to have the condition as well? Not that it goes against anything I've concluded, I just never thought he had it seeing as he doesn't possess any of the telltale signs all the Kaibutsus seem to exhibit
Dear God, someone who read the old theory thread. Well, I suppose that's one way to put it. I was aiming for a theory that would provide a likely explanation for all, or at least most, of the game
I never posted it because there are still some minor areas and characters which I haven't really been able to explain (not to mention lol shat on me writing off Machine Girl as a minor character with v0.16, which I still have no idea whether or not it is meant to be taken seriously). So I probably won't be posting it anytime soon, unless I flip out one day and post whatever I've got
Either way, these are my thoughts on Smile. I don't believe what he is is as important as the role he plays and what he represents to other characters. But here it is either way:
- Extremely overprotective brother (has good reasons for this, though)
- Quite popular among his schoolmates
- Behaves normally when around other people, but is actually suffering from severe depression
- May or may not have been the one who inflicted the Kaibutsus' trademark wounds (Wild speculation, since no proof whatsoever is available)
As far as your condition progression=number of eyes theory, it's plausible if we assume he has the condition. As it stands though, I think the room with two eyes is the only one with any particular significance, since it's in that room that we see him being depressed, and those two eyes on the wall are crying
What if Sabitsuki is a cosplayer and loves cosplaying characters from some horror game, and the people in her dream are characters that she cosplays as? I mean, she collects effects that could be her cosplay items. Smile's tattoos, Oreko's helmet, Monomech's legs, Gas Mask Maid's mask, Kaibutsu uniform, ect.
I don't think it can be such a literal thing. It's more on the lines of her effects representing something about the characters she get it from that stuck with her, or she became identified with. Part of her life, or her personality.
About the Smile rooms, I think there really is a progression there
-One crossed eye, normal. Smile with people around.
-Two bloody crossed eyes, smile alone with a hammer (which we know he uses for killing people)
Obvious killing spree.
I think the eye number changing from 1 to 2 is just to show a time progression, or perhaps even the school year where those events happened. Still, it's time progression, as if telling a story.
The eyes being bloodied is likely to reference the bloodshed.
Still, mouths and eyes in school, and mouths and eyes in the body areas…
And there's still the whole kaibutsu thing.
And as you guys pointed, Sabi getting an empty box there means that it's pretty important.
-Perhaps Sabi liked Smile, but he went on a killing spree in school and then threw himself out the roof.
-Sabi getting the tattoo effect on the roof represents Sabi's goodbye to him, and what he mean to her.
-Corrupted school event is Sabi's fear of having been another target for Smile in the massacre, instead of getting away from it, (probably because she was her only friend, as she seems to know were he lives.)
-Empty boxes as various traumatic events, school one being Smile's acts and death. Others would be Oreko's dissapearance, and Sabi's illness (or her mother's corpse dead and opened in the white room of the hospital).
Last thing, crosses sometimes represent suffering, rejection, sealing. Perhaps Smile was a misfit, a delincuent or antisocial (makes me wonder about gun, pipe and black coat effects, and Sabi's involvement with him) and perhaps this is why he went on the killing spree.
Oh, and last theory bit: window color schemes represent what Sabi thinks of herself, in a similar way than effects.
But you can retain the color schemes after becoming Rust, so these may be her "true" close memories, aside from the traumatic events.
-Oreko -> Oreko, laboratory empty box, orange scheme
-Smile -> Smile, school empty box, smile scheme
-Disease -> Little Sabitsuki, hospital empty box, rust scheme
and then there's
-Sugar scheme: sugar hole. she gets the scheme after eating there 3 times, so it looks like she went there a lot in her life.
No idea about the gasmask maids though.
-Plant scheme: plant effect… ???, no idea.
then there's the 2 rpgmaker default ones, I don't think they're relevant.
Ahaha. I think it took me something like ~4 hours to read through that whole thread, not even joking. Almost more time spent on that thread than the game itself.
I think there is a pretty close connection between smile and Kaibutsu, and as other people have mentioned he probably is the original one. The most distinctive thing about Kaibutsu is their mouth, which is the factor which defines smile as a character. Granted, he doesn't attack Sabi outright like most do, but I don't think that doesn't mean he isn't representative of the negative feelings embodied in the Kaibutsu. Certainly, he does demonstrate violence towards the school kids by massacring them. I took the corrupted school event to be a more literal manifestation of this.
If this guy really is Sabi's brother, maybe the illness is genetic or became genetic in a supernatural sense through him dying. But since his mouth appears as background in what would seem to be the womb area in the body, he might just be her boyfriend and impregnated her. I don't know, this guy is so weird because he seems to have had a life outside flow despite everything else in the game being focused on Sabi.>>1526
I'm in agreement regarding smile going on a murder spree and later killing himself. The hammer in the rooftop area even seems to be bloody. I don't know about the window schemes, that just seemed like unrelated fluff to me.
But actually, hold on for a sec. We never seem to have connected the Oreko to the illness, which is obviously the focus of the other two GETS. What if the tank we find Oreko (and later sabi) suspended in is a metaphor for a womb prior to childbirth? Suppose Oreko is actually Sabi's unborn child? She is certainly small enough to fit the part. This doesn't really explain the existence of Sabi in the tank during Rust, but I feel I'm on to something here
I have to say I really, really have no idea why everyone sees Smile as such a violent person. Can someone tell me what I missed that makes you so sure of he is violent at all? I mean, look at what the game shows us
- Not a single corpse around the school, and even if there were bodies that could easily be attributed to the Kaibutsus
- Never seen hurting anyone except when protecting himself from Kaibutsu Sabitsuki, which was wielding a pipe and approached him in the first place
-Even when protecting his little sister he won't attack you, and will simply brandish his hammer instead
I can't understand how one can jump from this to school killing spree, honestly>>1527
I don't doubt that. The old thread went on for a while, when there was still loads to be said about everything
I actually meant he was being protective of his sister, the little black-haired girl that we see next to him in his house
Eh. It isn't really much of a leap here>We see him surrounded by students>next we see him by himself with a bloodied hammer>if we go to the roof, we find him now in an area obviously disturbed with a bloody hammer.
The way the layout is structured is such that we are intended to see smile first with the students, and then with them gone. Rooftops have always been associated with suicide in yume nikki games, and the fact that the area is so disturbed seems to further this. The fact that smile in the first room with the students does not have a hammer contradicts the possibility of him just going the roof with a bloodied one, in my opinion. Not only that, but in the corrupted school he genuinely does attack sabi. I'm under the impression this may have been altered .16, but the very fact that it happened in this way suggests violence is possible for him.
The sequence in his house strikes me as a tribute to Uboa. I don't think we should necessarily think just because he is passive in this sequence he is harmless. Besides, he DOES actually startle the player and draw his hammer.
I agree with the startle factor Smile demonstrates in his house, but it's something directed at Sabitsuki, in response to executing an attack command on them. If he got his hammer out as soon as we entered the house and chased us around then yes, I'd be all for assuming Smile to be a violent guy
He did go after Sabitsuki on 0.10, but not since 0.15, which means lol reviewed the event and changed it on purpose. He deliberately wanted him to stay still and not do anything, or else he wouldn't have gone through the trouble of redoing half of that event
And of course violence is possible for Smile, he's cornered in the basement and a grinning, bloody-faced Kaibutsu was coming straight at him, iron pipe in hand. I dunno about you but that'd pretty much be my response to such a situation as well
I understood the logical leap, I just don't understand why follow it at all. The only time we see him actually harming a person is in a situation of legitimate self-defense. Plus, there's no real indication of time passage in the school, the one-eye/two-eye theory is pure supposition. Which makes the killing spree theory a supposition based on a supposition. When I say this, I don't even mean a killing spree couldn't have actually happened, we just don't see proof or indications of such an event anywhere
Also> not having a hammer on the one-eye room
Please check the pic good Sir, I don't believe we're talking about the same Smile here. He has no problems getting his hammer out, blood and everything
Ah phooey, you have me good sir. Had been running .10 English.
I had been intending to install .15 a few days ago and go on a mad theory-fuelled rampage to contest your points, but for now I'm just kind of lazy. Will return shortly
By the way, does anybody have a through explanation of what the different parts of the body are during the internal sequence? Even though we all seem to agree on some parts of it being a vagina, I don't think I've ever heard a completely coherent idea of what parts are which and what is going on in them.
What part of the body is the "pure" area that gets corrupted supposed to be? What about the rusted mouth location? Or the area where we get the effect from the dead blue girl? It seems odd to me that the most important are for understanding Sabi's illness has ended up getting ignored.
Also, I'd like to point out something I feel has been ignored: the exploding girls sequence is physical linked to the rest of this by being a part of the same map. I would like to suggest it is actually a child being born, and the lake monster in between the two areas is a metaphor for an umbilical cord
I think that is her mother, specially now that we've seen .16 where a… Sabitsuki baby THING comes from an exploded body of one of them.
There would've been some complications when she was born.
Though if we take that the Empty Boxes are traumatic events, and that there's one of them in a different area of the hospital (that, seems to have the door in the same place the Rust Barrier is next to Sabitsuki's room), she didn't die at childbirth and was instead hospitalized for a while along Sabitsuki and the other children… though eventually died and Sabitsuki might or might not have seen that.
My theory is that her mother had a disease, which Sabitsuki inherited perhaps a mutation of (or maybe, even Sabitsuki's disease was what killed her). It's safe to assume the flesh world is where the disease starts, but I'd specifically point out at two areas:
First, there's the part with the bloodied mouth and eventually an small room with a thing made out of Sabitsuki heads, which show up in large quantities in the worst part of the ending. This I believe is like a tumor of sorts, the root of the disease. Other similar objects are more of that disease having expanded.
The second is a looping room with lots of these objects (namely, the red heads with white hair seen in the ending right before the multiple heads thing).
Assuming that the black-haired girls are her mother, it makes sense that the places where these girls are healthy are… healthy.
I haven't played 0.17 though and I did find odd that besides the dead girls everywhere and highest population of rust demons, there was no real change in it…
As for the imagery of eyes turning into mouths… I also believe that HAS to do something with the imagery of mouths with everything related to this disease. Though I don't think it's as simple as just people having the disease; rather, I think the transition from crossed eye to mouth is the important symbolism here.
Ah, I see. Well I'm always willing to discuss new .flow theories, so take your time and enjoy the game
On a side-note you might want to skip 0.15 entirely and go for 0.17. Also check 0.16's event out, even if at this moment no one can say for sure whether that event is meant to be taken seriously or not
I was studying Psychopathology, then a sudden .flow theory came to me.
You know the flower event? The one with the colors?
The whole colored sea and those related areas (rainbow maze, neon city, witch event), specially the flower event, are pretty trippy, and it make me think of dopamine.
Considering the amount of bio-psychological related theories for .flow (mental illness, physical illness, cancer etc) I guess I'll drop my 2cents.
So this is how it goes: The flowers are the dopaminergic cells. When Sabitsuki uses the rain effect it actually increases the amount of dopamine in her brain, activating these cells.
Dopamine is closely related to schizophrenia (which may be another .flow theory to explore…), and, to be specific, sympthoms like vivid hallucinations.
Flower event = psychotic hallucination caused by excess of dopamine.
Oh neat, biological theories. I've been itching for an opportunity to post some of these
>the white area where you get the hands effect is almost certainly biological, I'd speculate lungs or heart. Check the rhythmic pulsing of the particle-like background with the beating noise
And more interestingly:>the background for the "ghost garden" area is almost certainly a platelet. Not only is the BG file named "PLT", take a look at the pic attached. Background is on the left, real life platelet is on the right. >>1553
I think the general consensus at this point is that the blue girl is Sabi's mother. The exploding girls sequence and the viscera effect seem to indicate fairly persuasively that she died during childbirth, at least I think. As for tumour, it might be a possibility since something like that could be envisioned as "eating away" a person. The thing I can't seem to understand is how it is related to smile.
I'm not sure I agree with you about the bleeding eyes transforming into bleeding mouths, while not as prominent, there is a pretty big dearth of imagery surrounding these in themselves. As for the three-headed kaibutsu tree, I thought perhaps it might symbolize sperm? Really hard to tell here
That white area absolutely stroke me as the lymphatic system since I saw it for the first time.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lymphatic_system
As you travel through small passages (lymphatic vessels) but you can also go out of them and wander freely (interstitial liquid).
It's also related to the circulatory system and blood so it fits the heartbeats. It's white as it doesn't have blood cells.
Also fits the whole "flow" thing.
Event the monoko effect makes sense, as it allows you to travel around, and the lymph can go everywhere as interstitial liquid without using veins like blood.
forgot to remark this:>The study of lymphatic drainage of various organs is important in diagnosis, prognosis, and treatment of cancer. The lymphatic system, because of its physical proximity to many tissues of the body, is responsible for carrying cancerous cells between the various parts of the body in a process called metastasis. The intervening lymph nodes can trap the cancer cells. If they are not successful in destroying the cancer cells the nodes may become sites of secondary tumors.
Dohoho… more fuel for cancer theories, and Kaibutsus as damaged immune system
Wait a second. If Kaibutsus are what you say, how does Sabi turning into one during the Rust ending make any sense at all?
The white area's name is literally "Microbe"/"Microorganism". Looks just like when you take a look at a sample through a microscope
We worked on a few translations a while ago in .flow's wiki, you can read about that particular area in this post http://dotflow.wikidot.com/forum/t-374729/map-names#post-1208742
Not sure if anyone though of this before, but what if the different versions of the game up to ver .15 are all sequels of one another, and as the versions go up, it means that the world has progressed? Someone probably already posted this theory, but bleh. Couldn't hurt to throw in my two cents.
i always liked to think that .flow was a program given to people who were infected with some kind of virus called rust and had to use the program to enter their own minds and get rid of it themselves.
i also like to think the rust is a man-made virus
made my the man that smile probably represents
but thats just what i like to think, since i hate giving deep meanings to shit.
I think it's int3r3sting that 5481 can "dr3am" without actually sl33ping. I think mayb3 sh3's an onlin3 fri3nd of MaDoTsUkI. MaDoTsUkI do3sn't hav3 a comput3r, but mayb3 sh3 us3d to, and 5481 has 3mbark3d on a qu3st to find h3r th3 only way sh3 knows how, by hacking into th3 WaiaDO.
How do I figur3 5481 knows MaDoTsUkI? W3ll, sh3 shar3s lots of 3ff3cts with Mado. You g3t th3 witch 3ff3ct from a charact3r r3s3mbling Witch!MaDoTsUkI, and (I admit this is r3ally r3aching) h3r hous3 vagu3ly vagu3ly VAGU3LY r3s3mbl3s MaDoTsUkI's room… Almost as if 5481 pi3c3d it tog3th3r from d3scriptions, or blurry w3bcam photos tak3n within th3 room.
5481 is a comput3r hack3r, hack3rs oft3n 3njoy 3xploring abandon3d buildings (don't ask m3 why but thos3 two s33m to go tog3th3r) which is why th3r3's all th3s3 rusty, run down ar3as.
tl;dr: 5481 is an onlin3 fri3nd of MaDoTsUkI, MaDoTsUkI has disapp3ar3d from th3 int3rn3t, and 5481 is trying to find h3r. Thoughts?
Oh and uh, pic not r3ally r3lat3d.
I thought about making an effort to read through that, but then I realized that posts like those aren't actually meant to be read
Paste into Notepad
Search and replace all 3's with e's
WOW THAT WAS SO HARD!
Yes, your theory is definitely better than all others so it deserves the extra effort to read
Next time refrain from typing in tardspeak, unless of course you actually have something to say which you don't want others to ignore
Cool it dude, I can feel the autism from all the way over here.
Something I just realized:
There's a lot of blood in this game, some people think Sabitsuki has endometriosis.
You know what endometriosis is? Without going into all the bloody details, it's a very painful menstruation.
And what's a four letter word for menstruation?
This theory/post actually made me cringe.
Oh God the feels. D':
This thread is now about .flow brain farts
lol's art depicts smile as a male.
a couple of things here:
The voice clip of smile talking. He for sure says "I'll see you again" at one part. I've been playing around with the file for use in an industrial song, so I've spent so much time hearing it, I think i've deducted what it says.
"You're sick girl, but I'll see you again." I know this has been said before but, I think I can confirm it.
As for the densen.png file. Me and my friend deducted that its probably outside of lol's house/apartment/whatever. But where is it used…?
Eye marking are for a childhood club. Smile was the leader. He was defensive of his sister, the rest of the club members took it out of context and tortured Sabitsuki because of it. The club turned into a terrible social wall in her life. She has no idea what Smile thought of the situation, but imagines that he is manipulative of others. This may or may not be true, despite her interpretation of him. She never had time to resolve any problems with him before she left (possibly from hospitalization.) He may not even have to club any more. He may have tried defending her, or just let her go.
I personally believe that Sabi went on a school shooting and killed Smile. She was too young to be tried so she was put in an insane asylum (where she currently resides) and that's why she can't leave. It looks like a bedroom because they want her to feel comfortable. She is deeply mentally disturbed by what she did and that's why her dreams are so fucked.
that could be her speculation on what prison could be like. rather, she thought for the longest time before her trial that she would go to prison and stay there until she died and rotted in a dark corner of her little cell. (corpse effect)
or she thought she would go there then get the guillotine, then burn in hell instead.
but she didnt go to prison, and that area is just her mind thinking about what it could be like.
another theory for that place is that she ran into the law many times before and actually HAD been to prison, and that's what her dreams altered the memories into.
hell maybe shes on house arrest and the asylum and prison areas are her guilty mind chastising her itself
>>1785>that could be her speculation on what prison could be like>but she didnt go to prison, and that area is just her mind thinking about what it could be like.
wow fuck go me for making that mistake
welcome to the redundancy department of redundancy im that poster and i will be your guide
By that logic, the school event could just be what she thinks a school massacre would be like.
Something I just want to point out about the prison.
The floor is pooling red and the walls resemble flesh. I think there is actually a very close tie in to the body analogy for this area. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if the body analogy could be extended to quite a few maps in .flow
What if White-hair Sabitsuki is a juggalo?
She has the eye makeup, and she has the wannabe-gangsta thing going on.
Actually, fuck it, I just realized haha2.wav is what happens when you interact with those chuckling city shadow-men. Fuck me.
I also like to think that the disease Sabi has disrupts the production of melanin, maybe by making tyrosinase defective? Dunno. The children in the hospital that resemble Kaibutsu have either black, dark grey, grey, and light grey-white hair. Sabitsuki is the only one with white hair. I don't think they were born with white hair, nor do I think the disease causes their hair to fall out and grow back white. It looks like their hair just got lighter and lighter over time until we got the white-haired Kaibutsu.
Assuming that .flow follows a similar style to Yume Nikki in that you're exploring Sabi's mind and not some other place, I think it should definitely be taken into account that she might be giving a twisted view of other characters. The way I see things, the entire game is about her having some fatal disease, but more importantly it's about the mental toll it takes on her and her inability to cope with it.
For this reason I think the "real" Smile is more innocent than he appears in Sabi's mind. I think he could have been Sabi's friend at one point, but due to her disease he pushed her away (possibly to protect that girl hiding behind him) making Sabi view him as a cruel and evil person.
I think it's a similar case with the Kaibutsu, that they're other kids with her disease. I think that in reality, they're genuinely nice kids who possibly just want to relate to Sabi over their disease, but Sabi faces extreme denial over the subject and doesn't want to associate with them. She sees what's happening to them, and it scares her, so they appear in her mind as these strange deformed people who chase after her and laugh at her.
(Honestly, thinking of them in that light makes them even scarier to me.)
Can't say I agree with your point of view, but your post is nevertheless well-structured and overall logically sound. We could use more of those around here
Back-up on the Doc is Smiles Dad idea, Smiles tattoos. They are plus signs, which are commonly associated with hospitals.
That theory is pretty interesting. The Doctor and Smile connection is works well. Maybe some people are immune to the disease.
Sabi's mother died during child birth.
When I was playing in the flesh walls world, I noticed how many allusions are given towards pregnancy there. I think it's Sabi's memories of being in her mother's womb. The walls of flesh, the faint sound of a heart beat, and of course, the strange exhausted looking women standing around, and the event where one of them dies in a way that resembles childbirth.>>1841
Maybe her mother ate/ingested something she shouldn't have while she was pregnant with Sabi? I find it interesting how all of the mouths in the game seem to put such emphasis on the teeth. And with the way blood is flowing from them, grizzly images of cannibalism reallyh come to mind.
Oh, and, I finally came up with something about all of the imagery involving flowers. I think they have something to do with death, or more importantly, decaying.
When Sabi heads underground, where the flowers start becoming really prominent, you notice how the flowers seem to be permeating everything they touch, growing through them and taking over, in particular the hospital children. I think these children are supposed to be dead and the flowers growing in them represents them "returning to the earth's soil". This also connects Sabi to it with the Plant Effect. (Note her apparently uncomfortable reaction when you make the flowers grow more, like it's eating away at her.)
Where the flowers originate, the industrial area, Sabi also finds the funeral dress. I think the industrial area could be a crematorium, with the smoke stacks burning constantly, and though this is a bit far fetched, I think the "snow" might possibly even be ashes. Again, when the flowers start taking over, it starts snowing. If these are in fact human ashes, this would once again fit in with the idea that the ashes are returning to the earth and serving as nutrients for the flowers.
And of course, there's all the flowers that appear in the Ghost Gardens. The ghosts live amongst the flowers, and apparently take care of them, seeing as one of the ghosts holds a watering can.
I'm stuck on the two girls who are trapped inside of the vines on the walls, though. (One with the sunhat and heart monitors, the other one who's near the pool of water.) If the girl has the heart monitors, that would imply that she's still alive and in the hospital. They also have that more disturbing and lower pitched scream when Sabi kills them, and they don't disappear, which makes me think Sabi feels some long lasting guilt when she kills them. So I really don't know how they fit into things.
funny that nobody has mentioned the flowers up to now. I always felt they were some kind of biological metaphor personally, being so closely connected to the hospital region and all. Sadly, the exact meaning as of yet evades me
As for your first point, I think we can all agree that sabi`s mother died during childbirth. The amount of evidence posted in this thread and others make it pretty undeniable at this point.
I just beat the game. I don't know how to piece together the events that happened in the end yet, I need to sit on them more. However, the whole Oroko=imaginary thing really bugs me. There's so much story linked to that character, and you throw all of that story away when you reduce her character to being imaginary. Why is Oroko in a tube in the industrial world? Especially if from the motif, the secret lab, and Oroko's machines, the Industrial Maze seems to -belong- to Oroko. So then why does Oroko have multiple Sabitsuki's in her secret lab? Specifically, why is there a bloody Sabi/Red Demon Sabi/Rust in the first room? There also needs to be questions raised about giants: giant Sabitsuki in Oroko's secret lab, giant Black Haired Girl in the dying girls event, and giant Smile at the school. It's easy to chalk Sabi and Smile to being weird graphical choices, and the giantess is open to interpretation, but put them all together and I can't help but see a theme.
And elevetors are still terrible.
And by reading more of the theories here I'm glad more questions are being brought up about Oreko.
I always got the feeling the elevator was just a recognizable landmark used to let the player know they are actually in the same area. Personally,I've always felt that the passageway was really the same place, only representing different stages of rust. >>1876
…as for the tubes, I felt they might be representative of a womb in pregnancy. Depending on whose womb you think this it, it might indicate Oreko is sabi's sister, or perhaps her daughter. I don't think anyone has given a coherent explanation for the scene with rusted sabi/Oreko together mind you.
it's late, I"m starving, but I'm too tired to fix anything to eat, so forgive me if I ramble or contradict myself here, but
I do believe the Parade elevator and the Rust elevator were the same, but I don't believe elevators represent nothing.
If .flow were a novel, and we were asked to interpret the imagery in the end of the story, no one would pass over an elevator that, at the climax of the story, replaces the character's sole way of interacting with -everything- in her life, brakes down, and takes her to a children's hospital where she kills herself.
I had a half baked theory when I had only played half of the game. After I read a couple theories that posited the Kaibutsu as Sabi's siblings, I thought Sabi had survivor's guilt. Sabitsuki was the only one of her siblings not horribly disfigured/killed in an elevator failure. That would explain why most of the elevators take you to the children's hospital.
This would be a much better reason for her refusing to leave her apartment than the "Just because" you see in most hikkikomori stories, Yume Nikki fangames or otherwise.
I was absolutely fascinated by the dying children. One, they are one of the only NPC's that aren't effected by the whistle. You can even control the Kaibutsu, but not the dying children. If you believe .flow is in Sabi's mind, you could very easily see this as Sabitsuki feeling as if the only things she couldn't control in be would be the dying children in the hospital. Couple these ideas with the way the dying children in the Parade hospital react when you hit them with the steel pipe. Unlike most NPC's, and, in fact, most children in other areas, the Parade hospital children don't just disappear when you hit them. They fall to the ground, and stay there, until you leave the room. This can mean that violence, death, and her actions, hold far greater consequence in that area of her life.
Little Sabi in the hospital bed could mean a fe things. If you posit the aforementioned events, she would have been hospitalized with her sibling's. This could also be viewed as where Sabi feels like she should have been. If you believe Rust is darkness consuming Sabi's character, Little Sabi's worsening condition could be her deteriorating sense of self worth, as she wishes she was more and more injured in the accident.
Of course, this theory doesn't account for Smile, Oroko, or the ending. Yeah it was a little premature. But uh, I'll keep thinking about it. Maybe one of the major NPC's was her therapist.
I guess I just like to think these because you don't really see someone just "Consumed by darkness" in real life. Things like PTSD and survivor's guilt can drive a person into seclusion.
Oh, I don't mean to say Yume Nikki and other hikkikomori stories have no reason their main character doesn't want to leave their house, especially because I have now remembered all of the wonderful theories on why Madotsuki decides to never leave her apartment in YN.
However, causeless agoraphobia is beginning to be the new amnesia in other games/shows
Monster post. u_u;>>1881
I think you're onto something interesting with the idea of Sabi being "rusted" relating to guilt and self worth instead of her actual, physical health. Still, I always return to the disease theory when I think about the blood that shows up in her room. I shun the idea of her cutting herself or something along those lines because of the machine that shows up at her computer, which I'm convinced is some sort of medical appliance. Whatever it is, I don't think someone who was harming themselves would buy some sort of a machine as a direct result of their worsening condition.
Though, whoashit, this one came out of no where.
Connecting to your theory of guilt, as well as the theory that her mother died in child birth, maybe that relates to the ending where she kills herself? That version of her deep inside the hospital, the way she has those distinct demonic features as well as being connected to the wall that might, again, be signifying her being in her mother's womb; maybe that scene is supposed to be Sabi sort of "aborting" herself for having killed her mother? She views herself as having been some horrible little demon that killed her mother, and vengefully takes "her" life because of it, to save her mother.
I mean, I don't think this really counts out the idea of Sabi having some sort of disease as a result of her mother. I think this could even be supported by the way you see young Sabi in the hospital, to say that she's been sickly her entire life. She hated the hospital, its staff, and felt bad for the other children in the hospital with her. She was discharged from the hospital later on, but still remained frail and separated from most of society, spending much of her time in her poorly maintained room. (Adding in the hikkikomori concepts, with how she sees the city as being dark, loud, and bright to the point of being downright frightening.) She fears the methods of treatment in store for her, and fears being sent back to the hospital. Her gathering effects and the many forms of self modification present in them I think is representing her trying to find alternate forms of treatment or ways to escape her problems. I think Oreko is an extension of this, with her being an unfortunately imaginary friend who Sabi has made as this amazing, friendly little girl with fantastic technological skills, who can solve all of Sabi's problems by operating on her. (In some way that Sabi apparently sees as being nicer, though the only effect "treatment" relating to Oreko that I can think of it the mecha one.) Now, this is where I think the elevators come in. She sees the elevators as being something of a trap, where you get inside and are just forcibly taken to wherever it is you're being taken. She can't decide where to go, and the door won't close to let her go back. It's like a death sentence, to her. The rumbling, blood, and glitchy lights are just to add to the ominous effect. I think the giants are similarly simple in symbolism. Them being large is just representative of how she views them as being significant, hard to miss moments in her life.
(As for my theory of how she's living in a poorly maintained room all by herself, this is one bit of anime logic I've never gotten. Orphans are pretty much always allowed to live entirely on their own regardless of being minors and without income.)
I just think the game hones in on the girl in blue as being a victim of something awful, which would in this case be Sabi herself.
Note, the hospital children aren't the only ones who don't disappear after being hit with the pipe. The two girls in the overgrown, underground area don't disappear either. What's more, they let out a similar lower pitched scream like Sabi.
What if Flow has HIV?
I mean, "rust"? Seriously? It's not a very good interpretation if you have to make stuff up. Keep in mind it's a dream, she isn't actually being attacked by literal bloody white-haired people.
The opposite of a plus sign is a minus sign. Guess who has dark red minus-shaped eyes? Rust.
Rust and Smile are opposites. Silent Hill, anyone?
I don't think anyone is going to have much luck with Yume Nikki fan game theories if they avoid making things up. That seems like a sad little corner we're kind of forced into. That's why some people still theorize on whether or not she's actually dreaming, since they don't even make that part obvious. I mean, who are we to say that the things she sees in her dreams aren't in the real world as well? If the maids exist in the real world, any of the other characters could be real as well. The whole world she's in does look kind of Sci-Fi.
tbh the maid endings really allow you to get pretty bonkers with your theories. Obviously, he maids are either real or fake, one or the other. Nothing is between existing and not at the end of the day. This means that either:
A) the maids in .flow are maids that ALSO exist in the real world,
B) the maid endings are "All in her head" and represent something else,
C) Sabi/Rust is still IN .flow during the maid endings, or
D) .flow IS the real world.
I can't remember the ending details so this may be wrong, but here is a theory:
-Go into .flow (tier 1)
-After getting all effects, go into .flow (tier 2, computer inside .flow, Rust mode)
-After the end elevator scene, awake (into .flow tier 1)
Conclusion: Sabi still in flow (tier 1, normal .flow)>>1894
HIV -> AIDS theory is pretty interesting, you can add the idea of Kaibutsus as infected white cells.
-Normal white cell: normal Kaibutsu
-Infected white cell: mad Kaibutsu
-Demons: the virus itself
AIDS is a neat idea, but I can't help but feel it is totally disconnected from everything else in the plot
I have a strong suspicion that the death of sabi's mother is tied to the illness. The mother factors way too large into what we've seen to just be some minor tragic episode. Also, I don't think the Kaibutsus should just be discounted as a representation of something. Sabi's transition into one is a major part of game progression, and certainly has a physical influence on her actions.
If I had to guess, I would say the illness is either genetically inherited or simply supernatural. I'm leaning towards supernatural personally, probably a manifestation of inner hate or regret or something like that. Specific illness seems just so mundane, not to mention nobody really has a consistent explanation for this while incorporating plot characters>>1896
Actually, there are three tiers. The moment you start the game you get static. Just like what happens when you enter flow as rust. I've yet to hear a compelling interpretation otherwise
>worth mentioning that Sabi's character image seems to change during this sequence to a girl with long hair. Might just be a reference to early sprite designs used by lol but still
Maybe she was born with HIV then. The first place you encounter the red demons is deep inside womb-land.
Created a new thread because the other thread seems to have been discredited of value by posters. But then I got bashed for it, so here.
So…I spent the last 4 hours skimming through both theory threads. Although I couldn't read it all thouroughly I can add that it seemed that there were several theories but the most predominant one was the "Sabi is phisically ill". Afaik hello never provided his master theory, correct me if I'm wrong, so the majority of people playing this game believe or support the "Sick theory", which seemed midway to what hello was going to provide.
I wanted to present a similar theory to the one presented by Night
( archive.uboachan.net/flow/res/1097.xhtml#1652 ) insteado of the regular "Sick Theory" route. I would like to begin for saying that I'm sorry for not being able to read both threads to the fullest so could be sure that my theory was on the same level has the ones with less holes in it. I would also like to remark that I wrote this before reading any theory, but after writing it I read what I could (on tvtropes, here and the wiki) to ensure that it was at least something different and plausible, than what the rest presented.
I wrote this a month ago and will try to explain why I theorized the following text. If anything is amiss it might be because I forgot to write it on the papers, and if so I'm terribly sorry >__<
Edit - after skimming through this thread there seemed to be a similar line of thought to what I tried to theorize, like 1881 and some other/s.
Satsuki was trapped in some kind of mental maze. Level 0 of this maze would be a replica of her own bedroom. Using the computer we can get to Level 1, this level being comprised of several floors and possibly 3 or 4 areas representing different sections of her life. Inside this level we would find certain people that were part of her life. As we regain the several effects (that work as part of her memories) and travel around the world activating events (that act as experiences she had), we end up being able to leave Level 0 through the door. As the situation changes, so does what happens in the end, but this event should be repeated until Satsuki's mind is free. To achieve this she has to discard all her effects (memories) and becoming Rust. Rust can only travel through Level 2, an outlandish place where the memories or thoughts that are blocking Satsuki, exist. The aggressiveness of this world can be thought of as a desire to repress such memories (as it can be seen in the Slime Event). If the repress memories aren't found and one should simply exit through Level 0, a character that exists to guide Satsuki, the Maid, will kill us. After our death we'd just end up being reintroduced again as Satsuki, in Level 0, so that we could redo everything again and find what is repressing us.
When we discover everything, Level 2 presents us with a new door. This door indicates that the repression was caused because of Satsuki's existence, and so Rust has to kill her.
After Satsuki has been killed, we wake on Level 0, as Rust, and we can leave through the door, where we'll be killed by the Maid, because Rust had stop being limited by Satsuki and so began to transform into a Kaibutsu (one could even say that she was even more hostile, since she even attacks the "defense systems" created by Satsuki's unconscious, like the Maids and possibly the Kaibutsu).
With the destruction of this Rust, Satsuki wakes up with all her memories and experiences back and with a certain determined comprehension of what happened to her while she was on that state, and with the acceptance of her existence and some things that happened. In the end we can see Oreko, whom is obviously important, and the Maid biding is farewell as we enter life as a renewed Satsuki, happily listening to some music.
P.S.: She might or might not be dead, but it makes less sense she being dead.
How i got that ^ :
Facts: If you equip the Pipe, the Doctor runs from you. The nurse only looks at you after you kill him.
There's a Plant-Nurse in the "Plant-Vital World"
Parade Hospital with People Alive has Blue Girl on a bed in the second door. (You can go to that secret door as Rust, to collect the empty box, and inside there's a blown Blue Girl)
Blood Puddle World has a dead Blue Girl and 6 people looking at her.
Oreko's machine is similar to the machine we need to enter to get to the place with Oreko+Satsuki.
Everyone laughs at her in the City.
There's an unreachable Kaibutsu in the School. There may be in the future a warp to reach it.
Hitting the Kaibutsu in the Black Warp World ("inside" Flesh World) will make Red Demons and Kaibutsu appear and changes the section with the 3 types of warps. -> There are only Red Demons inside the Flesh World.
Footprint Path has 3 types of footprints - Cat, Human and Rhombus (maybe Machine Effect style?)
Saves are .lsd
Satsuki sits. Rust doesn't.
If we look at the map as place that exists in a space and try to imagine what floor everything is on, considering Nexus as Floor 0 we have the following:
Hell 2 - Floor -6
Industrial World 1 and Sewers - Floor -5
Ocean 5 (Stick portal, stairs to Hell Pier, with the fishing dood)- Floor -4
Rust Pier - Floor -4
Bar Corridor - Floor -3
Mouth World Strange Tree (that "tree" "inside" Flesh World) - At least Floor -4
Industrial World 2 - Floor -4/-5
Machine Girl World - Floor -2/-3
Theory - Several layers of consciousness. The easier places to get to would be the most similar to the real life ones.
The "Strange Tree" appears in the route to get the True Ending, before the final door.
The warp you need to take to get to the "Strange Tree" in the Flesh World resembles a bloodied Satsuki head with red horns.
Effects Theory - based on where you get them or on what they are or transform you into
Iron Pipe - Weapon/Gang Weapon
Diving Helmet - Friendship/Comfort
Dress - Blue Girl's death
Plant - Things she liked(?)
Broom and TV - Nice memories
Arms - (Feeling) Secure
Ghost and Water Canister - Cemetery
Black Hood - Hiding
Gun - Scare off / Breakdown
Uniform - School (no shit)
Tattoo - Gang
Mono Eye - Breaking Down
Cat - Friend / Freedom
Psy - Experiments (with drugs)
Tumbling Doll - Something that occurred
Gas Mask -
Whistle - Making people relate with her
Viscera - Memory of what happened to Blue Girl
Headphones - Good memories / Time alone
Corpse - Future? What she thinks will happen to her/what she thinks she deserves
The Blue Girl was bullied. In the end she committed suicide.
Shape-able Memory -> Kaibutsu - Defense 1
Negative Response - > Red Demon - Defense 2
Fear - Corruption - Defense 3
Desire - Rust + Corruption - Defense 4
We're Oreko (in the past) or maybe she's part of us?
Satsuki might have done something or seen something being done to the Blue Girl in the School basement. After Blue Girl's suicide Satsuki was in shock and Oreko came to exist, helping her mentally.
Support to what matters to Satsuki -> 3 Empty Boxes. School, Blue Girl blown, Orange Stairway (Oreko)
The Blue Girl may have been pregnant and the Doctor might be connected with that. ( The Doc rapped her./The Doc wouldn't let her have an abortion./The doc knew something or did something that lead to the Blue Girl's death.)
Most likely, Satsuki knew the Blue Girl. Blood Pool World might be proof.
If we look at the map as evidence of something - going Left, places related with the Past. Going Up, places related with the Past-Reason to why Satsuki is there. Going Right, Present-Reason to why Satsuki is there.
Could Oreko be the Blue Girl? Or maybe the Machine Girl? The last connection would make more sense.
Maids are protecting Satsuki from here inherent problem. Could they represent Nurses?
Did she suicide?
The Mono Eye is bad - Red Eye World leads to Corrupt School
School Basement -> Mono Eye (Empty Box)
IDK if any of you remember me as Sakura-Sun on the old Uboachan [Before it was archived] but yeah. I'm here to plop down one of my fan theories.
I have been watching a channel named crossmirage for some time now, and upon going through their videos of previous versions of .flow [namely the video labeled 'Plexus'], he cites a Japanese word 'onigo', which means 'child born with teeth;child that does not resemble their parents'.
Now that there was fan theory fuel for me.
I believe Sabitsuki may be some sort of demon, and her illness is her demon self slowly awakening. Either that or Sabitsuki was possessed by a demon upon birth. If you refer the hospital from the 0.16 [The April Fools] update, first half she sees other children resembling Oreko and Smile, and when she reaches the front door of the hospital, there's a girl standing there. When little Sabitsuki approaches her she passes out, only to awaken in her room again. This time she refuses to visit the other children's room, and is found by the Gas Mask Maid. When the maid looks up there are the other children lying on the floor scattered about the hospital and blood. The only one alive is the doctor.
If you look closely to this scene, you can see what looks like a bloodied steel pipe or something similar.
Now, I believe that when little Sabitsuki passed out, I think she actually blacked out and went on a bloody rampage in the hospital, killing everyone save for the doctor.
And this is just the start of it.
In the game itself, I believe that the Kaibutsu are demons in disguise, hitting a passive one seems to 'deform' them which shatters their disguise a bit and changes their nature, and when the Rust arc begins, they reveal their true selves as the little Rust Demons.
As Sabitsuki she did used to go to school, but something happened there that involved Smile. You notice you can't kill him in the normal school, using the steel pipe causes him to, well, smile, and in the corrupted school he kills you. But as rust in the corrupted school you kill him. I think Smile might've been a friend of hers, but suffered from depression, paranoia or schizophrenia, and eventually committed suicide from the stress of it all [the rooftop where you get the tattoo effect may be a good example, cause it looks like he's staring off into the distance in deep thought]. Eithet he did jump, or Rust 'helped' him with his death.
Oreko may have been her closest friend, since when you put the helmet on and interact with her, the friendship meter [a counter in the game, it's in the coding] goes up. When the meter is full, you encounter Oreko's ghost in the area you get the Machine effect, as well as in the pseudo docks, where you get the Orange menu. You can also find Oreko in a tube in the orange maze. I believe Oreko died in the hospital, but was 'reconstructed', saving her life, but she wasn't the same Oreko Sabitsuki once knew.
Collecting the empty boxes represents her experiences as a demon, as Rust. The empty box in the Parade area of the hospital [the disemboweled girl] is from her killing the children in the hospital as a child. The empty box in the school is from Sabitsuki feeling horrible about Smile's death, and Rust laughing about it. And the empty box with Sabitsuki in the tube represents her [Sabitsuki] feeling isolated or alone, her grief of Oreko being gone.
The final area, the Sabitsuki sitting on the bloody throne, is Sabitsuki herself. Rust is killing what's left of Sabitsuki, and taking control.
Now remember the Gas Mask Maid? She somehow knew that there was something wrong with Sabitsuki, but couldn't pinpoint what. it's not until you achieve the real ending that she finds out Sabi is no longer herself, or pretty much dead at this point, but is now the demon Rust. Because it's Rust she's dealing with, the maid has no other choice but to stop it [I see Rust as an it] before it runs amok. She hesitates at first, but eventually stops it before it kills her, as well as anyone else. The maid then carries the body most likely to bury it.
The ending [flowbeat as I call it] is Sabitsuki, possibly continuing her adventure in the flow world [as a ghost or a digital entity], knowing she no longer has to deal with a demon trying to take over her or possess her, but is still aware of the dangers the flow world itself has to offer.
Long post is long, and may or may not make any sense, but this ladies and gentlemen, are my thoughts.
Feel free to point out any flaws or uncertainties.
So where does Satsuki exist? In the flow world? Is the flow world a real world, demonic world or imaginary world? Is it bound by linear time? As you progress does time progress?
I think the flow world is a sort of virtual world, but in a sense it's also a spirit world. Like you upload your mind into it, or possibly 'transmit' your mind to visit.
I'm thinking that Sabitsuki may have uploaded that last bit of herself into the flow world as a means to save herself.
As for time flow, I think it is bound by linear time, but I think there might be areas where time does not progress.
I noticed something interesting about the end that I think might support your theory about her still being in .flow at the end of the game. Or at the very least, somewhere different than what's typically viewed as being the "normal" world. I noticed that before the "True" End, right after she murders the version of her in the hospital, she wakes up in her bed after this .flow session instead of getting off the computer like usual. What's more, any blood that was in her room, as well as the machine that shows up after a certain point, is gone. It's like she's in an entirely different room or something.
The fact that she gets out of her bed makes me think that everything up until that point had been a dream. Or at least some part of it was. These lines are unbelievably blurry.
And out of curiosity, is lol just totally incommunicado about these things? Does he refuse to give any explanation or what? I mean, his drawings of Oreko and Smile seem to reveal a bit, so I can't help but wonder…
Version 0.16 was released on April 1st, so it may have been an April Fools joke. However there are things from it that seem to add to canon elements.
yea i know
t-that's the paradox, man!
I was trying to come up with some theories on Sabitsuki's location, whether the area she was in was her house, a prison, or whatever it is, and I noticed something interesting about the area outside her room. I thought the area below this sort of "porch" was just a wall leading down to the ground, but I noticed that it's the same image as her porch repeated. In other words, directly below her porch, is another porch, with the exact same design. I'm sure someone else has already noticed this, but it sort of reenforced a theory I was already working on.
Sabitsuki is being held in this building against her will because of the disease she has as a way of basically quarantining her from the outside world. Multiple other children with this disease (Represented as the Kaibutsu in her dreams) are in this building as well, held on other floors of the building. The maids here are the staff in charge of taking care of the children, be it discipline or companionship, but they aren't necessarily the ones calling the shots, they're just staff. (Gas masks are for protection from the disease.) The building is in shambles and not very well taken care of, primarily because no one wants to come near it.
The kids here are provided with very basic living accommodations and methods of entertainment in their room, such as books, a TV, and a computer, though they are cut off from the outside world to prevent the children from trying to get out. (The TV is just one frozen channel, it's only there for the game system. The computer would also not be equipped with Internet Access.) Sabitsuki doesn't want to leave her room because she's not allowed to. It's not part of her routine, and regardless, she doesn't like the staff there very much anyways.
Sabi's .flow sessions are a method of psychoanalysis in which some program helps her enter a state of hypnosis, putting her to sleep but also somehow connecting her mind with the computer and possibly allowing the owners of the building to see into her subconscious. The children do this with the hope of getting better by confronting their inner selves, but its main purpose is to allow the owners to be aware of what mindset the children are in, and to predict any kind of possible rebellion.
This is where the endings come in.
Ending 1 - Sabitsuki decides to escape the building in the easiest way she knows how: suicide. She runs up to the rooftop without being caught and before she can be apprehended, jumps to her death.
Ending 2 - Sabitsuki hesitates, giving the staff enough time to confront her and stop her from jumping and possibly contaminating the outside world. She goes back with the maid, and suffers a horrid fate at the hands of the staff.
Ending 3 - Becoming Rust in one of her .flow sessions showed her sublimating her earlier form in a sort of cocoon effect that worsened her condition, but allowed her to reach further into the recesses of her mind that the building had been preventing her from getting to earlier. (The red static at these parts is a sort of fire wall installed by the building to prevent the kids from getting to these rebellious points.) By doing this, she's succeeded in .flows true purpose of helping her confront her inner, weaker self, portrayed as non-Rust Sabitsuki gripped by the hospital/building staff as well as the disease that conquered her. Rust destroys this version of herself, making herself stronger, and braver.
Sabitsuki goes to the roof top, this time not contemplating suicide, but waiting for the staff to try and apprehend her for her intended rebellion. The maid approaches her with the chainsaw, preparing to amputate her legs in order to prevent her from ever trying to run away again. But, Sabi lashes back at the maid, showing her fearlessness with a defiant grin. The maid steps back from her fearfully, and Sabitsuki attacks her. The maid haphazardly undertakes the amputation procedure, but accidentally kills Sabitsuki in the process. Sabitsuki has rebelled against the building's staff semi-successfully, showing them that their methods are not full proof as they had assumed. This gives Sabi a sort of inner peace, represented by her walking confidently through the afterlife with her headphones on, untouchable by any of the obstacles she faced earlier on. (Including the maid, who she promptly ignores and walks past at the very end.)
- Sabitsuki is being held in this building against her will because of the disease she has as a way of basically quarantining her from the outside world
- The maid approaches her with the chainsaw, preparing to amputate her legs in order to prevent her from ever trying to run away again
So, she's in a quarantine, where people will amputate her instead of killing to avoid her making a run for it? Cost wise doesn't make a lot of sense, so there's no point in approaching the rest of the problems.
- Gas mask maids (Gas masks are for protection from the disease.)
So, the disease is airborne but the quarantine is based on a building with a "porch"/balcony? And like you said, if she tried to suicide she would die, per your theory, in the street, where she could contaminate possible bystanders/avoid the protective measures of the quarantine and possibly transmit an airborne disease to near humans or animals?
Credit where credit is due, she IS right about the texture for the apartment balcony looping. Now that is something
I almost suspect this is just lol being lazy personally. The much stronger link for the ending is smile's area on the balcony.
On a related note, the background used on the .flow version of the porch balcony looks interesting.
You only get to see part of it as the player, but the bottom is quite vivid and seems to resemble blood vessels? The game files only list it as "k"
True. Forgot about that while I read the rest of the theory.
About the background, sure. Blood, rust in water in an artistic way. But still, there's really nothing much to add. If we go by the name "k" we can get an even more farfetched idea: reading k as Ki -> Ki equivalent of Chi (life force) -> Chi being written as 血 (Chi). Like I said, too farfetched and not much meaning…
I don't think I'm the first to think of this, but long before I thought of all this, I figured Sabi was something of a test subject. The people keeping her in the building are quarantining the children, but at the same time, using them to research the effects of the disease. (Maybe to find a cure for them, maybe to test the psychological factors involved, since there's the common theory that this disease can make people turn violent.)
It's a pretty common theme in stories for scientists/governments to do some pretty horrible stuff for the sake of quarantining sick people. Far fetched, yes, but I wouldn't necessarily rule out that lol's story might be a bit far fetched after all. (I'm actually nervous about the possibility that I wouldn't like the storyline lol had in mind. Some of the fans are bound not to, whatever it was they were thinking of…)
I feel kinda stupid for missing the airborne disease/balcony thing. Oops. Didn't think about that. But considering that the suicide ending is kind of the "worst" ending, I wouldn't be surprised if Sabitsuki had a mindset of "I hate everyone, if I cause a pandemic, so be it." Whether she's being held inside or not, I think the scenes that take place in the city parts of .flow make it quite apparent that she does *not* like the city, with the way that everyone laughs at her. But I definitely think the maid was trying to stop her from doing something, and if that something was her jumping off the building, you have to wonder what the consequences of that would have been…
And when I looked at the background for her flow apartment, I was personally reminded of a city at night. Bright lights fading off into the dark distance, getting more prevalent further down on the horizon and less prevalent as it scales up into the taller buildings. Even though this is when she's in flow, with the constant mist surrounding her apartment, I think that could very well be close to what she sees at night if there's a city near the building she's in.
PS, I'm a boy, and you don't have to worry about "giving me credit" or any of that nonsense. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I'd rather I have a plausible theory in mind rather than a half assed one I pulled together on my own. No hurt feelings here. :P
It wasn't about "girl + giving credit" I think. It was more like "you look like you're being too offensive on such a matter". I treat everyone the same, I hope.
I still say that quarantine + open balcony should be re-thought. Quarantine's just don't work that way, even with unknown diseases, my opinion of course. It's like putting a sample of spanish flu in a small container inside a fridge anyone can use. "You're gonna be sorry".
"It's a pretty common theme in stories for scientists/governments to do some pretty horrible stuff for the sake of quarantining sick people" - Yup. I just think that cutting her legs and arms seems strange. Sure, break her legs, cut a vital tendon, bind her to something, these are cost effective solutions. Then again, the only reason this wouldn't make sense was if you wanted to test the subject psychologically, since the subject would be, lets say…sad. Then again, being forced to not leave a room and have no contact with other humans would make no sense if you wished to do such tests.
I don't think they're testing her psyche to see how she'd respond under normal circumstances, I just think they're trying to see when she'll reach that dangerous point of rebellion and fighting back. Because again, in the True Ending, the maid steps back away from Sabitsuki. When Sabitsuki reaches this state, the staff is downright scared of her. So they're keeping the kids there to test them and research the disease, but they know that they need to be cautious about the mindset of the kids, for their own sakes. Perhaps this is contributing to their reasoning behind cutting off her legs. Once they've reached that state, they're too much of a threat to allow them to walk around. Breaking their legs isn't good enough, because she'll heal sooner or later. (Who knows, maybe this disease makes her a higher resistance to such injuries.)
Just a little tidbit to add onto this thought, Sabitsuki was aware that the maid was going to do that to her at some point or another, being that the Tumbling Doll Effect comes from the maid with a chainsaw. So again, Sabitsuki was aware of the risks involved, she just didn't have the courage to face the consequences until she got these three boxes.
Cut the psychoanalysis part and it's acceptable. Just because it doesn't look like it'll make much sense. You torture someone, and then do a psy evaluation, and expect to gather trustworthy data from that? Her body is under constant stress, and that alone may react biologically and psychologically to the "disease", but unlike the biological data, psy will vary from subject to subject.
The only problem with dropping the ".flow sessions are a method of psychoanalysis" isn't such a big deal, since you add such a huge gap with so much more easier stuff (in my opinion: stress tests, just gathering info on the patient, etc).
Off-Topic: It's a fucking pseudo-science that's more based on basis of faith than accurate procedures… They don't even have a patterned procedure for each problem they encounter…DSM-IV! No more bashing on the social science/faith of the 20th century!
P.S.: Sorry if letters are missing.
Freud had some sensational ideas, but his concept of civilization as being opposed to human urges is rather compelling. Even if it indeed is more of a perspective than anything else. As if many of the DSM illnesses are not questionable regarding evidence in themselves! But enough of that. >>2001
It is a valid interpretation to think sabi is imprisoned, but
I really think that this is really the wrong way to go about thinking about .flow
For one, it trivializes the typically psychological and illusionary/dreamlike form of the yume nikki genre
Secondly,and in lieu of this, this undermines the complexity of the dream world itself by linking it solely as a manifestation of real-world events rather than an entity in itself, which .flow seems very much to me to represent.
And finally, it relies on excessive speculation regarding things we can only guess on. lol might be cryptic, but it would seem more likely that understanding .flow would require a minimum of this
The surrealism of the 3rd ending is only emphasized by the fact that the maid chooses to use a chainsaw. This seems far too unrealistic to pin down as "real life"
Well, this is the first I've heard of thinking of .flow as an individual entity. I mean, most of the fan games involve dreams, so I suppose I just kind of clumped it together. I also noticied that through a rough Google translation of the official website, on the page where lol describes the game play, they seem to directly state at one point on that page that she's exploring her dreams. (Though this is debatable of course, being that Google Translate sucks.) Also, if we're assuming that .flow is something else entirely, that seems like it kind of leaves us high and dry as far as interpreting Sabitsuki herself, which seems to be what most of the theories are aiming at.
But if you do try to interpret the character's history and lifestyle and how this would affect her psyche and "dream world", then I think having her being imprisoned makes the game all the more psychological, doesn't it? I mean, she's definitely not living under any normal circumstances, just look at her room, and how it changes through the course of the game. Whatever her situation is, I think it goes without saying that it's something really extreme, as opposed to all of the other games I've seen thus far where the characters just wake up in a relatively normal and easily understood environment. As was mentioned in >>2000
, she's probably quite sad living in this condition, and I think this is the one game that makes that much very clear. So I still think that by this theory, it's perfectly easy to still analyze the psychological aspects of the game, just take rule out all the happy bits. (Oh wait. There are no happy bits.)
Also, returning to one of my earlier posts, in the third ending, after she kills herself in the hospital and comes out of .flow, Sabitsuki gets out of bed, as opposed to getting off the computer. If anything, this leads me to believe that the third ending is reality and the *other* two endings are, in fact, the abstract ones. I haven't paid so close attention as to notice if she does this at any other point when she comes out of .flow, but if this really IS the only time that she ends her session by waking up from bed, then doesn't that *really* point towards the rest of the game being a dream? (Dissatisfying though it sounds.)
I must say though, I absolutely disagree with you that interpreting the game doesn't require guessing. People wouldn't be agonizing over this in forums if it was obvious. :P
Also, I feel stupid for not making this connection up until now, but I think the Kaibutsu turned into the red demons. I don't think this requires much elaboration since this has probably been brought up dozens of times before, but since the Kaibutsu are replaced by the demons, the Sabitsuki-Kaibutsu turns into one right in front of you, and the paler, more Kaibutsu like character Rust seems to become a red demon herself, I think this is a fair assumption. I mainly bring this up to further elaborate on the idea that the disease makes people violent and that Sabitsuki is afraid of becoming like this. Perhaps in this building she's in (Yes, I'm still sticking with this generalized theory, minus the quarantine/psycho analysis bits.) she's seen the other children turn violent when provoked by the staff and get killed by them all the same. I mean, look at how the demons are missing limbs. No arms, some people think their stomachs are cut open like the viscera effect, and their legs are just barely there.
Maybe my theory is ridiculous, but I'm starting to get an idea of why Sabitsuki is so afraid of becoming like the Kaibutsu. -w-;
Oh oh oh, and one last thing I forgot to mention about the third ending when she wakes up from her bed: She can't enter the flow then, either. It's not like other games such as Lcd Dem where she refuses to do anything other than go to the ending. She doesn't shake her head when you sit down at the computer. Just, nothing happens. What's more, any blood that was in the room, is gone! It's really leading me to believe that everything in the game up until then had been a dream. Other than the fact that, of course, she's still in this horrible building and the chainsaw maid just so happens to be real. Perhaps it's supposed to be a kind of "psyche you thought it wasn't real but it is" kind of moment for Sabitsuki?
"But if you do try to interpret the character's history and lifestyle and how this would affect her psyche and "dream world", then I think having her being imprisoned makes the game all the more psychological, doesn't it?"
I do think the game is mostly psychological, thus the huge wall of theory text that no one criticized (no one prolly read it, cba). For your theory, I don't dislike it like I've said, some points here and there that I promptly stated. Just think that most of the theories revolve heavily around "she's physically sick".
Unrelated to other theories for the most part, but I think Sabitsuki might have a general dislike of men. I'm noticing how all of the male characters seem somehow evil.
Smile I don't even feel like elaborating on, he's pretty clearly a scary guy.
The Doctor is of course connected with all of the dying children, implying that he might be a very corrupt doctor.
I also notice that in the city, all of the figures laugh at Sabitsuki with distinctly masculine voices. What's more, the brothel area in the city (I can't remember what people call it.) most *certainly* hints at some hormonal conflicts, with the little victimized looking girls in the rooms, and the dead/bleeding one on one of the beds. I also notice that Sabi refuses to enter the Mens Room, which could just be her being polite, but it certainly contrasts with many other fan games.
I also notice how many of the female characters appear kind of victimized around the men. Smile is an acception with Sister, but this could be *because* she's his sister. But the nurse seems fairly normal, and yet she shows up in that one dark area with that weird plant ailment. Alongside the brothel girls, there's of course, Sabi's "mother", and assuming that she is, in fact, pregnant, this could also be placing some blame on her partner - Sabitsuki's seemingly unseen father.
I feel like I'm opening a whole big can of SABIWUZRAPED.
>What's more, the brothel area in the city (I can't remember what people call it.) most *certainly* hints at some hormonal conflicts, with the little victimized looking girls in the rooms, and the dead/bleeding one on one of the beds. I also notice that Sabi refuses to enter the Mens Room, which could just be her being polite, but it certainly contrasts with many other fan games.
Where was this?
Sweet Sugar. New area in 0.17. Also lol at hormonal conflicts
Hey, I want to tell you all about this thing, which was my first impression of the 'Corrupted School Event'. I have read the old threads (but very superficially), and maybe someone has said like this. Still, is not a theory, but maybe something that can start it. Aslo, sorry for shitty engrish.
Well, everybody talk about this as if it were a 'bad memory' of Sabi. Some say she witnessed some kaibutsus killing/becoming kaibutsus. Others say that Smile did something there, posibbly a killing spree, possibly a suicide. But, for me, is not like that (at least close to that in that way).
See, in the normal school, you see a Sabitsuki with a kabutsu smile (the Sabi you get the School uniform for). This tell us Sabi started to have those… 'Aggressive' attacks in school. And when you get in there, she is ALONE in that room, only surrouned by some tables. (I'll return to this point later).
Well, when you are in the corrupted school, you see a kaibutsu chasing you with a pipe. And if you see better, you see two things really, really familiar. The hairstyle, and, obiously, the pipe. Yes: This kaibutsu is none other than Sabitsuki under the influence of RUST.
Yeah, yeah, nothing new, nothing fresh, you are surely thinking. But here is where it starts again.
Some people think the Kaibutsu is chasing Sabitsuki as she tries to get to the basement. Reality, for me, the first time I played it, it was really different. The kaibutsu is not chasing you. You see how it gets to the basement. Is a memento of how things happen. She is seeing it in 3rd person.
Think about this: Sabitsuki was alone, with a problem (Who knows? Maybe she was bullied, or just put whatsoever theory you like). And, whatever rust is (An illness state, a mental state, and experiment, etc.), it was activated there. She was alone, and it started to manifest in the place where the school effect is. Sabitsuki started to become mad, moving things around her as rust came over her. Then, she found the pipe, and would have killed someone if something would not had happened. She still wasn't so consumed by rust as to not control herself. That's why she moved out directly to the basement; a place where she knows no one would be. She wanted to shut-in herself there; but something happened. Something she didn't know. Smile was there.
I think, thanks to his smile, that he knew it would happen. Maybe Sabi told him about it, maybe he figured it out somehow. But, for whatever reason, he was there, and feared not her. Probably he tried to reassure her, demonstrating that he wasn't afraid with that grin; but also he could have been wating for it,to kill her.
And, for whatever reason, the battle started. Here you can think about if you see Smile like a bad guy or a good one, and understand it from your point of view. Sabitsuki could've tried to kill him, and that's why he pulled his hammer off to defend himself. Or he did the first moviment, and tried to kill Sabitsuki.
And here, again, from your point of view, things are different. From one or other reason, I think the winner was rust. But not physically. Smile knocked down Sabi, forcing her to came back to her normal state. But, if he was a 'good guy', he could have felt guilty, thinking he killed her, and that's why you see him in the rooftop. Maybe he killed himself (As someone already mentioned, rooftops are related to suicide in Yume Nikki's games).
Now, if he was bad… why he would go up for the rooftop? Well, here is the first hole. Personally, I can't 'fill it up' because I see Smile as the good guy, who, somehow, tried to help Sabi, but because of that battle, SHE thinks he is evil or malignant. Maybe he just know he would be punished for his acts, and, to not get into jail or a psychiatric, he killed himself (Some people, specialy crazy people, prefer this than to get there).
Other theory I thinked of, was that he seemed that rooftop like his house, or it was a place where he could see his house (You know, Smile's house is just UPON the school). For one or other reason, that rooftop is really important to him.
>-But, what's going on? There are 2 kaibutsus in corrupted school!
Yes, but for me, this seemed like 'Rust' was wandering around before Sabi gets the basement, and that's how Sabitsuki sees it.
Probably not important, but I don't remember someone pointing this out. So, if someone had holes with the school events, maybe that someone will see this nice.
>(the Sabi you get the School uniform for)>from*
>Other theory I thinked of…>thought*
Shit, I haven't thought that being asleep would make me made SUCH HORRIBLE GRAMMAR ERRORS!
your theory on it affecting women makes sense because the kaibutsu's are all said to be female, they were probably others who were affected with the disease as well since you can see the way they look is deformed.
So have there been any theories about Sabi either miscarrying or getting a C-Section?
So, are you telling me Lol is Sabi?
But, where are her tits? Where is her sexy white hair?
With the whole 'Sabi was raped' part, I think you might be somewhat correct. The place you mentioned was pretty clearly a brothel. My personal hypothesis for it is that Sabi may have worked there for a little while. Especially taking in some other theories, such as the dead mother, seems to support it. How exactly does Sabi support herself? She has a computer and an apartment, pays electricity bills, and needs food. I don't think she has any talents that legitimate employers would look for, so working there may have been the only way she could support herself.
But maybe I'm just full of crap.
Although something else I'm wondering is what about her father? Who is he? Where is he?
For rape, the only prominent male figure to fit the bill is Smile. It is true that he does seem associated with rust, but I think you'd be hard pressed to argue he does anything (symbolic or not) that could be interpreted as rape.
As for means of employment, you're thinking way outside of the box. It is a yume nikki game: having an isolated self-sustaining apartment area is just one of the cliches that comes with the package. As for the brothel, the only possibly significant connection I can make is the maids. If it was really a significant part of the plot lol would have included it earlier and tried to tie more of the plot to it. By meta-logic alone, I'd say lol felt that particular area of the map was too sparse and needed something more to justify itself
I think I've come back to this several times, but I really feel what needs to be understood is the meaning of pic related
If you're looking for what that picture might mean you should read the old theory thread. Look for That Guy's posts, he had a pretty good theory related to that pic. Hell, most of what he said about .flow instantly became headcanon for me.
I'd like to reiterate, I don't think she was raped. :P I do, however, think it's likely that she was maybe sexually promiscuous in some way? Or at the very least, hormones played a role in her life, I think she either wanted sex and got in trouble because of it, or totally rejected it and feared the implications it had for women, seeing as how there's so many references throughout the game towards women and or pregnancy. Sweet Sugar just seems to have some very serious implications about what she things of it. I haven't played the game in a while, but did the mangled girl on the bed look anything like Sabi's "mother"? Maybe this is where the sexual connection comes in, that her mother was some kind of a prostitute and became pregnant with Sabi? Or at least Sabi thought of her mother as a prostitute. I don't think it's a coincidence that there's no apparent father in the game, and the lack of one would certainly imply some kind of accidental pregnancy where the man refused to take responsibility/wasn't around.
And I hate to try and guide what people post about, but has anyone else come up with a theory for the meaning behind what I mentioned in >>2007
? This seems like a really important part of the game but I've yet to see any discussion about it.
I get so totally sucked into this every time I read this thread. I thought I'd broken my theory addiction. x_x
this is part of the problem with large threads I think.
I've tried to explain the ending sequence much earlier by saying that the appearance of the maid only represented the fact that sabi was still in .flow, only on a different level. You begin the game with static, and probably by no coincidence this same static is associated with entering .flow. It seems to me that no matter what, sabi has been trapped the whole time.
It's like the Avalon movie.
Reality is just an upper layer of the game.
Sorry if I missed what you said about the bed, I did remember your post mentioning the multi-flow layers. I thought her getting out of bed meant she was in the real world. So you're saying that even when she gets out of bed, she's still in .flow, and it's just .flow trying to trick the player into thinking it was all a dream? Just as plausible as any other theory, I suppose!
I think my whole "She's being quarantined" theory is stupid now, because I read through some of the old theory threads, and That Guy mentioned something about the roof she goes to actually being her school roof, and I found that to be quite plausible, more so than my silly theory.
But a new theory I'd like to propose, I think the sequence of Sabi walking with her headphones on at the end is supposed to represent a timeline of her life. I think the order in which the characters appear would correspond to some of the theories we've already had, and might just lead into some new ones. The fact that Sabi is walking straight through it is representing her trekking through her life.
1. Mother: Sabi's mother dies at child birth. 2. Flower Girl : IDK. Never convinced by a theory for her. 3. Doctor/Nurse/Children: Sabi is held in the hospital for a condition she's had since her birth, sees children dying around her. 4. MechaGirl: Prosthetic limb patient that creeps Sabi out. 5. Scarf Sabi: Sabi released from the hospital, frail, weak, and alone. 6. Enrolls in school, suffers some sort of bullying at the hands of the Kaibutsu, and betrayal from Smile, an older student who she looked up to. Kaibutsu manipulate her and make her "one of them", which Sabi is greatly disturbed by once she realizes it. 7. Effects: This is when the events of .flow start. Sabi locks herself in her room and collects the effects. 8. Red Demons: Rust Chapter. 9. Oreko: This is the one that seems very out of place to me. Maybe representing Oreko being her only friend and staying with her until the end, seeing as the next one is… 10. Gas Mask Maid: The end of Sabi's life. The Maid, for SOME reason, kills Sabi. The Maid is, in all ways, the end, but I don't think she's entirely evil, from the way she bows to Sabi. I think she was, in some odd way, serving Sabi when she killed her. (Obligatory Rust Ending "SABI JUST GOT SEEEERVED" comment.)
Quite rough around the edges, but I do think there's something very significant in the order in which the characters appear in that last scene.
The only problem in the order is that you're explicitly telling us what is what even though it may not be it. I too think that the end may refer to what happened to her before we start the game, although i refrain from saying that the blue girl is her mother, partially because i don't think she is her mother. Apart from the names, all ok with that.
Btw Chesir, the part about viewing Smile from another perspective was indeed interesting. If we go only by what you said, we may even think Smile thought it was his job of taking care of Sabitsuki, and after bashing her he just felt he couldn't live without her so he ended up in the roof and did himself off. Personally don't like it much because of of the chronology of the story, and becomes a bit hard when you have 2 schools with 3 parts displaced in time, in 3 different ways. Like one representing Pre-bash, then going for Why-bash, And Bash-Result.
I think that that thing of 'two schools' and 'wtf is going on with so much changes in the same place' can be seen as a change of perspective from Sabitsuki's and Rust's point of view, plus the confusion induced by the traumatic events Sabistuki could've lived there.
And, thanks for comenting; for a moment I thought no one saw that post or it was going to be forgotten here in darkness.
Lol yeah, I get a bit carried away with the details. The specifics are all cut and paste, really. But my point in that theory is mainly that I think the end scene is a chronological order of events of her life time, including both what we see in the game as well as what we don't see.
But what are some other theories regarding the blue girl? I remember the one about her being Sabi's immune system, and while I can somewhat see the vslidity in that theory, I'm still much more sold on her being Sabi's mother, primarily due to the event with her stomach exploding, as well as the fact that she's seen in the hospital bed with what looks to me like a bun in the oven underneath the covers. :u
But when I say it that way, I can see that there's not much to suggest that she's Sabi's mother specifically.
As far as the school and Smile, I got the impression that the dominant "atmosphere" around Smile is that of a clique. All the students hanging around him, Sabi's inability to get to him, as well as her inability to get his attention, he seems very exclusive and somehow powerful in the school. Sabi found him kind of ominous and daunting, and tried join him, imitate him, or be more like him. His grin is him laughing *at* Sabi, particularly when she tries attacking him, saying "Idiot, you think you can hurt ME?" So I thought that him attacking Sabi in the basement was his way of saying "You're not welcome here, we don't like you, get out." In other words, I don't think Smile was being nearly as just and somehow helpful as he would be if he were fighting back a dangerous Rust.
And I'm not sure if I've suggested this theory before, but I thought that the Kaibutsu-Sabi's presence in the school, as well as the presence of the Kaibutsus in the school's lobby, suggested that they were some kind of higher up force in the school. Disciplinarians, maybe, or possibly a group of preppy snobbish kids, with the way that they all wear their neat little uniforms. But, connecting to your theory, Chesir, I do think there was conflict between them and Smile. Smile's some kind of a gangster, I think that goes without saying, which would put him in stark contrast with the preppy little Kaibutsu. Sabi saw the Kaibutsu as the one way to get back at Smile for antagonizing her. And I can't remember which was which, but aren't there multiple versions of the corrupt school event, where in one, Smile kills you, and in the other, you kill Smile? Maybe Sabi killing Smile is after she's teamed up with the Kaibutsu and can finally seek her revenge?
(PS I think I'm mentally unable to make short posts. I'm sorry. u_u)
>>2188>But what are some other theories regarding the blue girl? I remember the one about her being Sabi's immune system, and while I can somewhat see the validity in that theory, I'm still much more sold on her being Sabi's mother, primarily due to the event with her stomach exploding, as well as the fact that she's seen in the hospital bed with what looks to me like a bun in the oven underneath the covers. :u
I'm not going to go read my theory nor going to get my notes, so i'll just write from what i remember.
iirc we see the blue girl in the hospital in a bed, big version of blue girl in the "womb area" and a blue girl in an area that i think that is connected to the hospital where there's a blue girl on the floor with 6 guys looking at her. I think there was one more blue girl but can't really recall. Being that there are two instances of a dead blue girl in two different ways may turn the mother theory less viable. Plus, iirc, Sabi's room is next to Blue Girl, albeit in "different" hospitals.
Not going to add more, if needed i dumped my theory here, but simply put i think blue girl and Sabi are indeed connected, but doesn't sound like she's her mother. Even Machine Girl (Mechajou, go!) would make more sense as a crippled motherly figure, but that's just a timely opinion.
I can't say I visit this site often, so apologies if this theory has already been written here, but I've got a theory that's quite different from the rest of them here. P.S. There's spoilers here for the game EarthBound / Mother 2. If you haven't played these games and don't want to know the story, I recommend you stop reading!
So I'm sort of leaning towards the idea that .flow isn't actually telling some ambiguous or deep story that's meant to be decoded, but that it's actually a homage / retelling of the Giygas foetus theory from EarthBound. For anyone not aware, basically a widespread theory is that the final boss, Giygas, represents a foetus, which the player fights and basically 'aborts' as the characters have to travel back in time to attack Giygas. A slightly more in depth version of the theory ties in with the fact that the boss' portrayal was based on a childhood trauma by the game's writer Shigesato Itoi, in which he walked into the wrong film at a cinema and believed he was witnessing a depiction of rape.
Anyways there's quite a few comparable things I've found that relate to this, which I feel the story is directly referring to, or at least heavily influenced by:
1. Yume Nikki itself was heavily influenced by both Mother 1 & 2. Looking at how .flow adopts and adapts these influences (the Pyschedelic Streets area seems much more influenced by EarthBound's Moonside than anything in Yume Nikki, for example), it's pretty much a given that lol is very familiar with these games.
2. The title 'Mother' itself seems to have quite a recurring theme in .flow. The exploding womb sequence, Sabisuki being the eldest among a wave of sick children, the hospital in the alleyways (backdoor abortions, anyone?) etc.
3. The oversized body parts printed on walls and the like appear very similar to the eye when first presented with Giygas. This one is a bit more tricky as I don't think that's the main motivation towards them (dreams about teeth for example are a traditional sign of failing health, hence why I think references to smiling is so heavy in the game). Certainly rings bells though.
4. On that subject, the final smile of Sabitsuki in the ending looks eerily similar to Pokey's smile at the fight with Giygas. Maybe a reference to the idea of her becoming corrupted?
5. The final elevator sequence is well, pretty much a direct analogy to the boss fight. The only way to find and tackle her reflection is the same to how Ness is able to find Giygas (in EarthBound you have to find 8 sanctuaries where you collect melodies, in .flow you have to find 3 sanctuaries where you find memories). The purpose of the fight also becomes similar, where you travel into the deepest areas to destroy the core of sorts. It's possible there's a twist where Rust represents Giygas and she destroys Sabitsuki, aborting the inner child (both metaphorically and literally). The idea both sequences seem to share very similar themes and ideas of evil, well just seem very similar.
Does this theory have flaws and holes? Course it does, I don't think I've entirely made sense of .flow. Just seemed a very odd coincidence I feel strongly could well be related. Maybe someone can elaborate a better, more thought out theory related to this than I have!
I personally have a hard time believing that the entire point of the game is to retell the story of Giygas, just because that seems like one hell of a drawn out tribute/homage, but these are some extremely interesting comparisons you've made. I've never played the series, only heard of it and watched the Giygas battle, but I can definitely believe that lol would have been influenced by Earthbound and have made parts of the game similar to it. Lol seems to have been directly influenced by quite a lot of things. :P
The abortion idea *has* been brought up before, I think, seeing as many people relate the body world layout to the womb and think Sabi's birth has something to do with the plot, so the idea that she's "aborting" herself fits in with other theories. On the other hand, though. people are still only theorizing that Giygas deals with abortion in the first place, so it could just be that people love to theorize about abortion, which has certainly been my experience with other things. xD
Is it possible to support the theory that the black-haired woman is indeed Sabi's mama is that she died during child-birth and that has scarred Sabi ever since? Like, that has to be a terrible weight on a child and then to grow with that into your teenhood reh teh teh.
Like the gory gut-exploding reh teh teh is how Sabi imagined it to be and it's something that she's blamed herself for?
So, I've always believed the whole "Sabitsuki has a fatal disease, probably called Rust" theory. The imagery that surrounds this is so prevalent that I can't see it any other way. I have some thoughts about what exactly the symptoms of this disease might be…
- Obviously, it causes some kind of hemorrhaging. Blood from the mouth, nose, and eyes would probably be a sign of internal hemorrhaging (to kind of a ridiculous degree)
- It's debatable whether or not the white/grey hair is caused by the disease, or some kind of cure. In the corrupted/future alleyway hospital, we can see black-haired children who are just as dead as the white-haired ones… This makes me think that the hair color change is not part of the progression of the disease, but a side effect of whatever treatment they received.
- I get the feeling that it also causes brain damage. There are two things that lead me to think this:
Number one, unless we take the symptoms of the disease into crazy town (which is still fun, but still), the Kaibutsu and Red Demons couldn't be caused by the disease itself. Rather, they might be some kind of hallucination associated with brain damage. In my mind, Sabi went through a LOT of trauma related to the hospital and school, which could be the reason that the Kaibutsu and Red Demons are so damn scary looking.
Number two is the whole "flow" thing and how Sabitsuki and Rust are somehow the same person. "Flow" must be some kind of software to help repair the brain damage caused by Rust, or kill it off, or something like that. The two apparatus that show up when the Erosion Counter goes above 150 seem definitely medical, and the fact that they're next to Sabi's PC means they aren't just life support. This also leads me to believe that .flow is set in some kind of future and not modern-day, where science magic could do something like repair heavy brain damage.
- The brain damage in the later stages is mostly in the frontal lobe. People with injuries to the frontal lobe tend to have a lack of self-control, inability to empathize with others, and increased aggression. I would say that those sort of symptoms could be seen in the Kaibutsu, considering how most of them will immediately attack you.
- Lesions could also be a symptom. Off the top of my head I can't really think of any other reason as to why blood soaks through the hair of people who are really infected.
Also, some random ideas:
- Rust was some kind of pandemic.
- Sabitsuki has had Rust for a long time.
- The alleyway hospital experimented on patients, perhaps because there were so many coming in.
- Sabitsuki is immune or resistant in some way to Rust.
- There is a sort of timeline related to school and the hospital and Sabitsuki's room. Maybe it was something like this:
Sabi is treated for Rust -> She starts going back to school with other sick kids while rehabilitating herself with flow -> Things go crazy and somehow the kids at school get out of control -> Sabi is forced to defend herself at the school for a while, maybe a couple of days (notice how the desks in the school are all bunched up together in several rooms)
-> Sabi escapes, and has to take care of herself (related effects: gun, black hood, iron pipe) -> Sabi comes back to her house, and no one is there -> Sabi holes up in her room and continues flow -> The events of .flow
Sorry for the megapost >_> Some of this has probably been said before, but oh well
I think Sabi is a pretty cool girl, eh beats Yakuzas and doesn't afraid of anything
so i found thishttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rust_%28fungus%29
and it made me wonder if it inspired lol at all
granted, real life rust fungi primarily target plants, but plants do feature heavily in .flow. perhaps one particular strain of fungus managed to mutate into something that could affect humans?
Anyone have any theories on the new areas in v0.19 – the Streets, the Underwater Village, and the weird areas connected to Sweet Sugar?
Also, does anyone have anything on Charlotte (the pink-haired girl by the girl in the alleys)? I haven't really seen anything on her.
What do people think of the theory that Rust is Sabi's protector, instead of a disease trying to kill her? For example, Rust is a split personality created as a defense mechanism against either the disease or the awful things that happen in Sabi's life, but Rust becomes a misguided protector that does more harm than she does good. The endgame where you play as Rust is her racing against time to try and save Sabi from the disease, perhaps even sacrificing herself in the process to try and kill the disease (final corridor), either failing or succeeding (likely failing, given the whole maid thing that happens after). Thoughts?
sure I'll post my massive theory here
warning for super long, possibly boring, possibly a stretch, but give it a read maybe
so a while back I wanted to really look at the things that made up Rust as a disease, and .192 rolled around, new areas, etc.
so I started doing some lookaround on conditions with two things
>dermatological disease w/ blood vessles that resemble "rust"-like pockets>said disease is also terminal/fatal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaposi%27s_sarcoma
(gore warning obv because this is .flow, but there are some really nasty images in there)
so the first thing you usually hear about Kaposi's though is that it's related to AIDS, which as an immunodeficiency syndrome is why you… erm, well, die- kaposi's can be transferred through sex regardless, as well as saliva, and can be contracted through blood so things like organ transplants or blood transplants can cause it
first things first is the theory that sabitsuki is immunocompromised, and that's based a lot in the events in the Viscera world - the Dying Girls event is often thought to be symbolic of Sabitsuki's immune system being damaged/dying (plus accounting for the rust factor it has with one large increase, then same increment increases as you see it later times)
it brings you back to "how, then, did Sabitsuki become immunocompromised enough to contract Kaposi's" and there's a number of things
>Sabitsuki could be albino (People with albinism often have weak immune systems.)>Sabitsuki could have been one of the forced child prostitutes from sweet sugar.>Sabitsuki could have had an organ transplant/blood transplant as a child from an accident, and then as a result of a bad transplant/IV + the immunosuppressants given after a transplant, caught it from other patients who were there from catching it from sweet sugar.
The reason I say there are other patients that are around that caught it from sweet sugar is because of the resemblance of some NPCs from Plant World & the lower hospital and those girls in sweet sugar you find laying around, dead, exhausted, etc.
In particular the black-haired girl, who was called the "director", who is theorized to be Sabitsuki's friend who she can't "reach out" to.
what my main theory is that
>Sabitsuki was hospitalized as a young girl for something serious, needing an organ transplant.>The condition of the hospital is obviously extremely corrupt, given the back-alley has corpses all over the place. >One bad organ transplant later…>Sabitsuki as a child has now contracted Kaposi's Sarcoma. >Sabitsuki has to be treated for Kaposi's Sarcoma, which she has nicknamed 'Rust', especially when it starts to enter terminal stages. She's gone through several cycles of contracting and being treated when it becomes terminal. (sort of like how the "flow" thing was referenced in the manga, though the manga isn't canon)
one thing as well that came up in .192 was the symptoms of Rust and how they're treated, so I went through a few
>obviously the lesions, and they appear pretty much almost everywhere on the body but we often focus on the ones on her face and legs>adding in to the idea that the rust factor represents how far the disease has spread, here's this bit from the wiki article:>"Growth can range from very slow to explosively fast, and is associated with significant mortality and morbidity.">said lesions can cause skin breakdown from pressure ulcers, which = necrosis>skin necrosis = needed amputation> .192's release image + sabitsuki's child self + machine effect = "treatment">coughing up blood is also a symptom, but I don't remember Sabitsuki coughing up blood? might just be worthy to note then
a friend of mine mentioned that the reason mouths may seem so prominent is because of Kaposi's saliva transmission, making Sabitsuki scared of them
as for the girls, being child prostitutes, it isn't unlikely to say - if this theory holds, they could have contracted it from STDs/saliva. their "customers" aren't exactly the most respectable of people.
I like the idea of a plant existing originally for treatment but instead causing more problems, since Kaposi's isn't curable. It's just hard to conceptualize a flowering plant that will literally grow inside your body and exit and whatnot. Plant gore concept stuff based on actual diseases/botany isn't my thing.
Anyways feel free to rip this apart or whatever. I'd like to hear some thoughts on Kaposi's or other diseases similar to "Rust" disease.
Sabi coughs up blood when you try to enter the bloody white room. There's also the bleeding mouth background in the body world I think, the many, many instances of bloody mouths that appear in the game. But bleeding from facial orifices is a thing in this game. Rust even has a nosebleed if you look in the mirror in the brothel's bathroom.
So, given that you get the Nightmare event by raising the Erosion Counter really damn high… do you think we could add hallucinations/nightmares to the list of symptoms that Sabi has?
Well, yeah. Lack of hygienic conditions seems to be a recurring theme somewhat. The state of the hospital just behind it, for instance, even though the hospital should be the "cleanest" area, then sweet sugar hotel, and… in general everywhere there are "carriers".
If Sabitsuki has a weakened immune system as is theorized super commonly, her contracting Rust wouldn't be hard if her dreams are direct reflections of real life/her experiences.
Also, I think maybe the school might be the cleanest. Which is weird imo, since usually school is where everyone catches whatever's going around.
Weren't they completely randomized?
functionally, yes, but i remember seeing it stated somewhere as an in-game explanation. might have been a rumor or just someone's theory mistaken for fact.
y'know I used to think .flow was never gonna update after .18
do you think we'll get a .2 ever
I get this feeling that lol might have some more stuff to add onto like. Sabitsuki's story or something, like with what they did in 19 and whatnot.
also .flow is one of the few games without any yume nikki fangame references, maybe next update (if it ever happens) will have references… or not (sometimes it's one room full of a bunch vs one or two references scattered)
I'm pretty sure that lol has already confirmed that he's planning to update .flow to version .2, eventually. Then again, it could be a just joke like the VX remake he talked about.
he's working on something else. tweets fan things about .flow a lot. apparently he's into hotline miami.>>2929
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA oh good show man
My interpretation: Sabitsuki was born with a deficient immune system (possibly HIV+) and had to be installed with cybernetic organs as a result of a disease soon after birth (hence the "machine" effect). She was born around the time of the first outbreak of the Rust illness, which killed many children at the hospital she was in. However, she herself survived due to her isolation (as seen with Little Sabitsuki in the Parade ward, located in her own seperate room before the erosion meter increases). When she uses the computer, she uses an experimental form of virtual reality intended to be used for psycholgical therapy based off her own thought patterns, made possible by the fact she is a cyborg. Even though she had been previously employed as a beta tester for this technology before she contracted the "Rust" illness (which she was more susceptible to due to her weak immune system), after her diagnosis her mental world rapidly changed as the knowledge of her illness mentally consumed her. She continued to test the system as her wages rose due to the special insight gained from her case and in order to incentivise her to continue testing in spite of the mental stress, but being placed under quarantine, she was unable to do much with it.
Oreko was a childhood friend who she met as a result of her being the daughter of a scientist her parents met specializing in cybernetic enhancements. She grew up around her father's machines, hence why she is often seen with them.
Sabitsuki becoming Rust represents her entering the terminal stage of her illness, with the ending depicting a maid/nurse, assigned to her apartment block to care for her wearing a mask (as presumably the disease is airbourne - the same way that oxygen rusts metals), before "euthanizing" her with a chainsaw (possibly meaning the disease cannot be stopped by bullets). The rust corridor represents the disease killing Sabitsuki off, with the smile that appears when she encounters the nurse being the disease beginning to physically manifest itself.
So, nothing really new other than the cyborg thing…
why does it look like bacon?