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/fg/ - Fangames

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🎉🎉🎉 Happy Birthday Madotsuki! 🎉🎉🎉

File: 1330366414949.png (43.58 KB, 221x242, Middens Icon.png)

 No.4184[Last 50 Posts]

With a development cycle nearing two years my game project is finally nearing its completion. With a hopeful release planned for April now seemed an auspicious time to announce the game.

Titled 'Middens', the game is styled towards open ended exploration of a surreal sensibility. A formal battle system in a likeness to traditional RPGs is employed alongside a "knife effect" system making for diverse creature interactions. Some of the game denizens require a formal duel while others can be destroyed on the general map, whereas others are completely peaceful.

General Info:

Middens takes the perspective of an ambiguous drifter traversing a veritable x-zone. Roving its interminable wastes the nomad chances upon
a sentient revolver beside an ominous pile of remains.
The pistol offers its exploit in exchange for a pledge of inextricable compansionship.
Espousing to be the player's conscience the dubious weapon directs the drifter to a nearby outpost wherein the story further unfolds.

Despite its appearance as a wasteland the rift is home to many strange denizens–
some volatile and others ineffectual. Whatever their disposition the pistol represents the choice to engage them or to spare them. Offense and passivity
both have their appropriate times with rewards and consequences
being granted to both paths respectively.
I have created a Tumblr dedicated to the game that exhibits screens, concept art, original music and will eventually house the download.

Until then here's a preview of the game:


File: 1330366493119.png (94.34 KB, 622x468, Screen Shot 11.png)


File: 1330366520570.png (81.53 KB, 596x420, Screen Shot 14.png)


File: 1330366546215.png (86.16 KB, 570x478, Screen Shot 12.png)


For those interested in additional material I uploaded the preview to youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPUCTx44q90
and the aforementioned tumblr: http://middens.tumblr.com/


The soundtrack covers around forty unique compositions. For those interested in hearing the music I also have uploaded a few tracks. They can be listened to here:

(The imagery accompanying the music is taken from my online gallery if anyone happens to be curious)


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File: 1330369278055.png (194.26 KB, 300x534, Time Nomad.png)



This is the sort of stuff i want to see on this board. If it looks as good in motion as in the pictures i'd be happy to play it. Can't say i'm a fan of rpg gameplay in general but i can overlook it if the enemies look like in the video. I'll definitely give it a go when it's released.


Agreed, just seeing all of this, so much creativity and imagination. Even if it might have enemies that you battle, they look like awesome enemies.
I also like this kind of insanity/creativity. And the graphics are beautiful. The music really sets the mood.
Nothing bad to say here, I'll keep tabs on this game.


thank you for your thoughts. I had concern that this project would be too much an divergence for this community, and I'm heartened to hear otherwise. I'll periodically update this thread with news until the project is formally released about a month from now.


Wow. Out of all the games on this board, this one has to be the most promising! And thats an understatement. I'm completely in love with the 19th century style art and illustrations, and it contrasts well with alot of the futuristic settings. I can't wait for the demo release!


Oh god finally something awesome besides Moga's stuff.
Can't wait to play it.


This looks very promising! The art looks reminiscent of that in Yellow Submarine, except much more sinister and depressive.


Looking forward to this so much—it really looks amazing, Clowder.


I'm speechless. This game looks and sounds amazing. This whole project is a one-man endeavor? If that's the case, consider my mind blown, and yourself having a new fan.


^^In its natal stages the project was initially envisioned as a collaboration, but the inactivity of my contributors eventually lead me to helm the project in its entirety; all the music, visuals, concept designs and programming. The project however, would likely not have been possible without the anonymous tutelage of many game development communities where I gleaned technical assistance.


Looks awesome, man! I can't wait for this to come out!


Holy shit. A YN inspired that DOESN'T completely rip-off Kikiyama's art style? You sir, are a winner.


This looks absolutely amazing. Glad to see someone breaking the habit of "Version 0.00c" and about to publish a complete game.


This pretty much makes every other game on this fucking board look like shit (as if they weren't tremendously awful ripoffs already).


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Wow, I'm impressed


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i'm delighted to see that there's going to be a legit completed game in /fg/, havent seen one of those in a while.

this looks like something i could sink my teeth into

and i also hope that others use this game—nay, entire thread–as an example of what /fg/ really needs instead of more yume nikki spinoffs that will probably never be completed. a completed surreal game that's like yume nikki in a sense, but its own game in its own way. thank you for injecting inspiration and originality into an otherwise admittedly bland board.


I was viewing the screenshots on a smaller screen, and they didn't really appeal to me.
But now that I'm seeing them on my computer, I'm like "OH…MY…GAH!!!"
I find the graphical style to be almost indescribable, but something about kind of reminds me Earthbound (I'm not sure what, it's just a feeling).
I like RPGs, so this being an RPG (like, an actual RPG) is very appealing to me.

Also, I'm very impressed with the amount of time you put into the game, and that you decided to wait until you were almost finished making the game before you announced it here.

Guess I'm looking forward to the release.


Even just the visuals of this game have me instantly interested, let alone the project in full.

Wish you the best, Mr. Clowder. Much looking forward to this.


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dude, im pretty psyched for this. the designs, art, and soundtrack are all really quality.

also this may be the stretch but is that round green guy a tribute to the hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy? reminded me of the alien on the covers (except with a few opposite features)

keep up the good work


File: 1331045193693.png (252.58 KB, 534x525, Media Fortress.png)

Here's a styled castle conceived in game's early stages of development.

Screenshots outside the video will be seldom hereafter, as I would prefer that players encountered the majority of areas first within the game.

In reference to the above question: I cant cite the book as a pertinent influence but like any warm blooded reader I would gladly touch my head to the feet of Douglas Adams( may he rest in peace).

Thank you again for your responses. Working on the game has been a joyful experience.


File: 1331063234093.png (3.38 KB, 208x208, 1326515122723.png)

How do you keep yourself so motivated? Everything looks so beautiful, it must have taken ages to make.


Woah, are you Kikiyama? I salute you, since I don't even want to go on my usual "rehash" rant. Absolutely impressive, I can tell that just from the screenshots.


>implying kikiyama ever did art this detailed


Who knows, it's been 4 years since he/she/it/they released YN. Could've improved.
(PS I hated most of Yume Nikki's art)


File: 1331160824836.jpg (162.09 KB, 1073x506, stolenfromtales.jpg)

Loving the stolen sprites.
Explains the lack of consistency in the rest of the game too.


The art is from lots of sources, but he's put it together in a compelling way.

That said, it would be nice to see credited sources, and also you should resize your player sprite more evenly. The multiple pixel sizes makes him look awkward.


Even the "concept art" is poorly drawn-over paintings and sketches from 19th and early 20th century artists.

And it's a shame that this work is all stolen, because everyone was lauding him for his "unique pixel art". Now it's just "uncredited graphics arranged in a compelling way."

I knew something was up with this feller.


File: 1331169100150.png (59.36 KB, 496x367, Passage.png)

Like Yume Nikki the game's graphics have been composed using original art and derived sources in tandem. The majority of Yume Nikki's environments and many creatures were created using modified Mother sprites, although Kikiyama also sourced more obscure games like Gegege No Kitarou.

I'm primarily a collage artist by trade: http://revolverwinds.deviantart.com/
and I've utilized my artform throughout much of the game. In majority no sources have been derived without being extensively adapted and credits and mentioning are intended to be released with the game.

I love collage as a valid medium, though I am not so doting that I don't see its limitations. As I would with my fine art I have attempted to use it with the fullest integrity.



Yeah, the hand sprites look kind of similar, but he didn't just straight lift them from Mother. Or else he redrew them (which would have defeated the purpose of stealing art in the first place).

You'll have to try harder, motherfucker. You should have mentioned the collages and lifted pixel art earlier. But you didn't, and this sudden defence is more than a bit suspect.


Also, it's no secret scandal that I am a collage artist. Visiting my website my artform is clearly identified. Even googling my name will have brought up sources discussing my work in its context as collage.

Despite some of the disparaging remarks, my work has atleast the clout of several international publications and even the honor of accompanying Alan Moore's writing in the Abraxas Journal:


The game is a free offering to those who will play it, and I stand to make no profit from it. It is for the love of it that I have worked on it, and there is no pretense behind it's origin–either to impress the naysayers or win their hearts to my medium.

All that said, I hope you all will bypass the inevitable controversy collage generates to enjoy the game for what it is.


Well I don't see the problem. As long as Clowder isn't completely ripping pixel arts out of other sources and if a large majority of the art is original, it seems fine. I mean, lots of the objects in .flow have been either stolen and edited, or redrawn. If he does use art from outside sources, a nice credits roll at the end would be nice.


This game seems really stupid now.



Now that the veneer of "wow, this is unique" is gone, it's really really hard to stay interested. Oops.


Wow, the mob is thickle isn't it? I'm surprised that people don't seem to realize the lions share of fangames heavily rely on borrowed assets. This, atleast, arranges them to a unique effect. If it's finished I'll play it.



There are a few that use .flow's elevator graphic, but I haven't seen that many that outright stole from another game.


Still looking forward to it. Derived graphics are quite interesting, especially if I notice what they're derived from.
…Plus, it's still an RPG.


Hey, at least it still looks better than 90% of all the YN fangames out there.


That's what I was thinking.


Better looking it may be, but now it's back in the slush pile of regular RPG Maker games because those guys don't usually make their own graphics either.

They take them from commercial games. Is it cool for some dude to use Gears of war art assets in his indie game just because it would make his game graphically superior to his contemporaries?

I still can't believe people would defend this pretentious asshat after all that wool that's been removed from your eyes. He never even mentioned that the game used derived graphics until he was called out on it!

Sure, there's that thing about it being a freeware game, but now when you play it, it feels a lot less personal. More like pretentious arty bullshit and theft than a game which was pixeled in by hand. Doesn't that mean anything anymore?

Even though those other games might look bad, know that the creators sweat and blood went into those pixels. This clown just pieced other shit together.

Yes, collage is a valid art form, but for games in this "genre" (or whatever the fuck you call it these days), it's no good.


>the mob is retarded

fixed that, no need to thank me


Terry Gilliam, Max Ernst and Jan Svankmajer(acclaimed surrealists) were all collage artists. Just a thought.

Secondly, he actually states on the game's tumblr that the game is a mixture of original and collage work. It's in the game's info. I don't think there is malignant intent here.

Until he admitted being a collage artist everyone was excited about this game. It's just sheer bias that people change their minds now. If you're not open minded how can you even play a game like Yume Nikki in the first place? Where are you?

I wouldn't be surprised if the anon posts were rival developers trying to sheer the competition with their bull shit.



Surrealist collage artists aside, you are forgetting that this is a game, my friend. Sure, some of us are probably rival developers that want to cull some of the competition (seeing as our friend Clowder here has scared off all but two developers, one of which is excited about the game still and the other of which probably doesn't visit this site very much as she has her own to deal with).

The problem is that people here basically had their expectations smashed after some other comments built this up to be the killer app. Not much has been said of gameplay (probably the most important part), but the art was built up by the community to have this high, unattainable standard.

There is a problem here, but it might not lie in anything Clowder did or the crowd for being a bit upset.

The problem is the entity of the hype train itself.


I agree it is the hype, although it is obviously also a few adamant trolls. If this game hadn't received any attention then no one would have sought to fling stones.

If the developers were truly scared off it is a testament to the game's visual style. One anon bemoaned it was not going to feel "personal" anymore. What the fuck is personal? Usually games are rated on playability.

The argument that that collage wont work here (because it is a game) is null until we actually play the end product. If it does or doesn't will be proved then.



Well, bear with him on the "personal" thing. With the way the game's art is put together, it is indeed in danger of being less personal (something that a lot of these games bill themselves as, but aren't.)

When he says "personal", he's probably referring to a unique personality the game's aesthetic has that it imparts on the player. Yume Nikki and some of the better fangames have this feel to it; a unique aesthetic that only that specific developer can share with the world.

Now, that's not to say Clowder can't do the same. In fact, he already has. But there is still fear of the danger that it might be… sloppy.


Wouldn't it be funny if I was every commenter on this thread posing as one another and the game in question infact, never existed but was all, infact, an elaborate hoax to demonstrate a point about how shitty this board is?



Define "shitty". I mean, it's not like I disagree, but I want to know if we agree it's shitty for the same reason.


The only person who is a pretenious asshat is the guy who complains that a game isn't good unless it is "personal". Playability is the judging point. It's why Mario beats Sonic, right? Or is it the other way around?



Mario is a game with a lot of personality. A better comparison would be between mario and the "brown shooter" sludge pile. Now you see why personality is important.

Or Yume Nikki and the sludge this board has churned out/jerked off to over the years (Broken Bottles, Illusion, Anarchy, all those other unfinished games and all those japanese fangames barring a small few…)



Well, I'm still interested. The art that's there looks well utilized, and it's not like it's ALL taken from other sources, either. Plus there's still the gameplay, music, atmosphere and storyline to judge the game on as well. Music seems pretty good from the few clips on the site, and it's hard to judge the other 3 without playing the game.


Seriously. We haven't even played the freaking game yet, through that hasn't stopped others from making such sweeping judgements. And while I can sort of understand why some are disappointed that Clowder didn't create the graphics entirely from scratch, he seems to have done a good job putting together different art styles and colors. Not everyone has the ability to put together art from different sources without it looking like crap. We still can't say if Clowder's games is the usual garbage we see around here or not until he releases it.



To be honest i kinda suspected that this was a collage of sprites.
For example this one, look at the orb and the rest of the sprites. They obviously don't fit together.

The bunny thing has a clear border between its head and body, that's not something you get if you sprite yourself.

It's the same thing with all the pictures. Although i can't say this takes away all the fun for me in playing this game, it will most likely irritate me seeing so many different art types.
That said, i will still be trying it out and if the gameplay is satisfactory i can overlook most of it.



We live in a culture that remixes everything.

I personally see no problem with how he has gone about to create his graphics. It's effective, and he is not relying on just one source; he is modifying and combining them enough to make it his "own." I believe this is a different realm then say, sonic recolors or something. As long as he sites somewhere maybe that there are collages aspects i personally see no problem and still support this game, it still looks interesting.

quit with the deviantartlet attitudes


I'm getting the impression that some sprites in this game are completely ripped from other games; I wouldn't know if they are. But the pic in >>4346 shows slightly different sprites, so they must be somewhat edited at least. As long as it's not the exact same sprite from another game, I should be completely fine with it.
I'll just wait until Middens is actually released and I play it, before thinking anything further about it.


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Someone mentioned Ernst. I actaully own copy of his collage novel 'Une Semaine De Bonte'. It happens to be one of my tresured possessions and the collage work actually enhances the dreaminess of the whole work.

My dreams tend to have a similar style.


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All the game's respective websites describe the game as having been conceived through collage. Usually in the first sentence of the game's info.

The piece to left was organized from over one hundred and fifty individual fragments. Ideally, collage takes something which is derivative and makes it original. That is the beauty of the medium.

The hegemony of most games here is take something original and make it like everything else.


(I could have sworn I had posted a comment here earlier, but I guess I forgot to hit "new reply"!)

I think the game looks pretty good. The creator has some interesting accolades to his name and despite the graphics being derived or whatever, I can see real design sense in many of these screenshots—colour theory, the bold and the detailed, little wasted space in the environment… I really want to see how this game plays.

I hope it plays as good as it looks.


It's fine by me if it was made from collages. But if you're gonna do it keep the graphic style consistent.


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The point of collage is the contrasting styles. Criticizing that is like denigrating water color art for being 'runny'.


This thread needs more LSD.


That is not what i meant. Look at the screenshots. The level of detail varies greatly. What i want is consistent level of detail, sorry if that was unclear.
Here for example the orb looks really detailed while the rest looks really grainy. It stands out and hurts my eyes.

Also just for the record, a game is not the same as a painting, contrasting style in the same game mostly looks bad. Arguably this board is a bit more tolerating in this department.


File: 1331240722147.jpg (32.26 KB, 384x284, totoro-tree_thumb_large_ho….jpg)

In Miyazaki's movies the characters exhibit barely any detail while the backgrounds are highly ornate. The contrast is deliberate to govern the eye's focus.

I've seen mixed styles done helter skelter. Check out 'Aslyum and of Pain & Pleasure' :http://rpgmaker.net/games/3315/

Looking at that game provides a clue of how the graphics could have been mixed. From my perspective the screenshots here provide a good counterpoint.


If helter-skelter means bad looking and amateurish, i agree.

Miyazaki movies are not collages, and not even the same medium. There are not many games that looks good and are collages, this could possibly be one of them.


File: 1331245394604.jpg (61.48 KB, 324x244, Landing.jpg)

This area in Yume Nikki is likely the pinnacle of the game. It uses three barely unifying styles. The shuttle, the photo landscape and Madotsuki all contrast bluntly. It works, inspiringly even.

All artforms are more alike than different. "The form is the art, but the art is not the form." is a martial arts teaching, but it actually applies to art in general. It means "all artforms are the same" because the qualities of the artist are all the same no matter what the type of art.


Honestly, I'm disappointed because I thought OP drew everything by himself… But I'm still going to play the game and then tell my opinion. Who knows, it might work after all.


It's nice to see the trolls beaten back with art theory. Wish it happened more often.


I personally think it's a bit offending calling people who went "what the hell you didn't tell us that this was all [so called] stolen"
Now, art theory is nice and all but the way he handled it felt a bit sloppy. "Oh what you guys didn't know? I posted my tumblr it's right there in one or another subsection" as if it shouldn't have been blatantly stated right here in the first place.
As for >>4404, I believe that works due to the fact that madotsuki's dream world is very inconsistent in style in the first place, and usually means something. The mars example is a very good one indeed, possibly showing clashes between different parts in her mind.
So you could say, consistently inconsistent, I guess.

Now, with all that said, I'm still looking forward to this. We'll just have to wait and see how this turns out.


The subsection is called 'game's info' appears right below the title and its the only section there is. Your phrasing implies that it's some kind of fine print. Don't you atleast read the ingredient labels of food before you eat it or do you shove it all in your mouth on sight and then fret that it has too many calories?


> Live in a post-modern world
> People still complaining about derivative art



File: 1331351321438.jpg (4.11 KB, 115x139, 1272860824548.jpg)

Seriously you guys. The game still looks fuckin' sweet.

Jesus christ you're acting like Clowder went full Bioware or some shit.


that scene doesn't actually have any resolution conflicts. and its use of style contrasts was very limited and very deliberate.
i have nothing against using other games graphics, but the resized elements in this scene desperately need repixelling. they're jarring but not deliberate enough to evoke any kind of response besides jarred.
sorry guy who's game thread we jacked to discuss art theory in. :P your irl collages are pretty good.


While I agree that the sprite-work on
>>4185 (is that how you do that thing? Don't post on chans ever I don't know :{ )
is a slight jarring, I really like the perspective of it
You're looking at the couch from the top, and then the window with the teller in the background is almost completely facing us

It gives the piece a cool semblance of a curve


File: 1331357213830.jpg (1.12 MB, 1897x1431, 6468008099_fb643ed103_o.jpg)

"You're looking at the couch from the top, and then the window with the teller in the background is almost completely facing us

It gives the piece a cool semblance of a curve"

That's actually a really keen observation. Some of the pictures look like they took influence from angled perspective paintings.


File: 1331357334842.jpg (606.07 KB, 1280x1558, 6411558341_e49f194894_o.jpg)

This might be a better example



Really? I don't see any need for him to make a special announcement "WARNING: GAME CONTAINS COLLAGE ART"


Just out of curiosity, is there a name for this type of painting?


File: 1331408877335.jpg (133.19 KB, 778x1075, van_eyck_arnolfini_wedding.jpg)

I'm nearly 100% certain that style of painting would be identified with the Northern Renaissance.



I think the "Arnolfini wedding" is actually an early Flemish (or early Dutch or whatever it's called) painting as it was made in the 13 century, before the renaissance really hit Northern Europe.



Whoops, 15th century, my bad. This shit gets confusing (1400s is 15th century, not 13th lol)

Early northern renaissance, but not quite. It was just beginning.


Thank you. I shall no longer disrupt the thread.


File: 1331414925833.jpg (62.6 KB, 400x600, gemini_by_revolverwinds-d1….jpg)

On a side note, the guy possesses some pretty blatant drawing skills. I yoinked this from the older part of his website and figured I'd post it here for show.


Every Middens hater in this thread is:

1. Retarded

2. Also an eight-year-old. Or at least that immature and stubborn.

Thank you good day.


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File: 1331696707981.jpg (71.9 KB, 480x343, Christian-Northeast-4.jpg)

In honor of this thread I give you the Terry Gilliam animated opening to the Life of Brian: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkWjf9DhlnA&feature=BFa&list=WLC1D073340A8D6196&lf=mh_lolz


File: 1331697749874.gif (27.95 KB, 240x153, salieri.gif)

or 3. An insecure fellow developer…probably someone along the lines of Salieri


^ that


File: 1331807338679.jpg (184.6 KB, 571x699, Tokuhiro Kawai.jpg)

It isn't to be fretted about. The kneebiters of this board would never deter me anyway.

For those interested Middens is now featured on RMN where it was fortunate enough to receive a spotlight for my designs: http://rpgmaker.net/

I would recommend following the game's progress there or on the tumblr as I have no plans of upkeeping this thread.

As a last offering, I would also suggest any prospective designers leave this community for greener pastures. I had heard rumors, but it really does seem Uboachan is the Mystery Babylon of myth. Or in other words; "Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues. For her sins are heaped high as heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities." lol

On a positive side note my artwork took 2nd place in the Infinity Gallery's exhibition on the future: http://www.infinityartgallery.com/2012-and-Beyond/

Wish you all a merry Saint Pats!: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spsrEMvoGhw&feature=BFa&list=FL1e8cUtPaDJoG9T5DwRp8bA&lf=mh_lolz


Yeah, I think anyone seriously developing games on this board should probably take it somewhere else. They're not going to get anything but blind support or blind flames anyway.


Yeah, honestly I'm super disappointed over the reactions you received when people learned you do collage. I really admire the work you've done, and I'm glad that you did post here so I could find this game and your stuff.

Hopefully people will begin to give better feedback, so that /fg/ will be able to get better.


I don't particuarly condone that type of behaviour. However, if you think that any imageboard will be all goody goody and no critique you have honestly no grip on reality. A good day to you sir.


With Clowder gone, that really only leaves three worthwhile projects on this board. One of them is Umbra.

To be fair, that's still two more than this board used to have. A billion projects, but the only good one was The Other Line.

Oh yeah and there's Rindre's game that isn't ever getting finished, forgot about that.



Obviously I'm booked with school and art classes. Patience is virtue, people.


>>4605 So? Rusch is a student in either high school or college, and bleet and Mishka are college students, yet they were all able to get out pretty expedient updates and development.

So, I'm suggesting that you don't know what you're doing, which is why you keep announcing all these side projects (that game for your sister that you wanted everyone to make for you, that crossover clusterfuck fanfiction with characters that DON'T need to be included in the Yume Nikki fanon, such as Scott and Me.)

And, what generally happens to projects when the creator doesn't know what they're doing is that the project doesn't get finished. You announced your game on the 18th of November, 2011, and it's now the 15th of March, 2012. You don't make your own tiles and and your spritework is incredibly simplistic, even for an RM2k3 game. You don't have a single effect programmed into the game and even the nexus is incomplete.


Linking any of the comments here to worthy critique is like comparing fart torching to blowing bubbles.


It's amusing how much praise this game got at first, then after someone found out it uses artwork derived from other sources, everyone started to flame the hell out of it. And now, this thread consist nothing but hate.

Come on people, it was obvious at the very beginning that this is a collage. And now, since the developer has been scared away, just let this thread die…



I'm still pretty excited about it, actually. Don't think I'm the only one either, since not EVERYONE was spouting hate after the reveal.

People's reactions were pretty disappointing for the most part though, yeah.


John Clowder's a pretty accomplished artist, I'm not sure if he cares what some potentially jealous rehashers think of his game, which I expressed enthusiasm for (I'm a fan of his work, you see.)


Yeah. He has 4 daily deviations.

And if you use deviantart you know how important that is.


File: 1331871108523.jpg (624.28 KB, 973x720, heh.jpg)

I held off on posting this but, yeah, I can indeed confirm this guy has illustrated Alan Moore(Watchmen, V for Vendetta). Picked up the latest Fulgar Limited book about a year ago from a Treadwells in London, and thought I'd scan the find. For those who don't know what Abraxas is a good comparison would be the Minotaure: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minotaure

It's not the sort of thing you'll find in any bookstore. The journal itself addresses philosophical subjects traversing into the occult. It's one of those sorts of books you'd only find in the forbidden aisle at Hogwarts haha. Its contributors tend to be counter culture icons like Ira Cohen or the surrealist painter Ithell Colquhoun.

So there you have it Uboachan. A genuine surrealist comes to your door and you crap on his canvas like a rabble of apes. Hell knows why any established artist would post here in the first place.

On the plus side we've still some great works on way. Mishka and Rusch's work both look promising, and Clowder's too. Still it would be plush if this board would better commit itself to constructive criticism.


I think anybody hating on this guy is an idiot. Sure, he didn't mention that the art was produced through collage, but that's because he assumed he didn't have to. He seems like the kind of person who would recognize all artistic mediums as equal, and made the unfortunate mistake of assuming everybody else did as well. And it's not like he's just hashing shit together randomly. The graphics he's ripping were chosen specifically because they would complement the visual design of the game. Not that you mongoloids would understand visual design, seeing as how you've just been ripping off Kikiyama for years.


So much butthurt. How about you let the thread die if we are such brutes.


Hey anon, why don't you risk the consequence of your ignorance and ascribe it to a name. I say we dedicate the thread to collage art just to piss off the shit spewers.


File: 1331938921779.jpg (162.4 KB, 744x600, 51_northpole-large.jpg)

The sooner this thread dies the sooner we can return to nitpicking children's drawings.


Collage work is just as artistic as hand drawn work.

Personally I admire, and enjoy the process of hand drawn/painted work more, but collages from a design standpoint are just as artistic and should never be "shunned".

I can see why some may not hold them as high as hand drawn/painted work on the surface, but when you think about it there's no reason not to. Collages uses the same design senses in the big picture.


The problem i personally have with collage in this kind of game is that it shows a lack of imagination in the author. And it takes away some of the fun of it for me, as a creator. If the creator can't be arsed to make his original stuff, it just irks me the wrong way. Feel free to whine all you want about it looking good and whatever, me personally won't change my opinion.


File: 1331988879623.jpg (302.07 KB, 984x571, 984x588-ggGFhhKk.jpg)

This work is overflowing with imagination. Personally, its some of the more inspired work I've seen here.

If you cant conceptualize the value of collage and its unique application as an artform you might be the one who lacks imagination.

Moreover, as you admit to being a developer yourself, I would garner you're likely responsible for one of the numerous Yume Nikki palette swaps of this board.

Maybe if the merits of collage are explained to you in an eloquent british accent you'll understand: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5wLxO_YMqg&feature=BFa&list=WLC1D073340A8D6196&lf=mh_lolz

But its not my vocation to alleviate your point of view.

The image of this message is a collage by the way. Why don't you upload some of your art next and we'll judge how it measures up?


File: 1331989030354.jpg (259.67 KB, 583x588, 984x588-yL0YlF32.jpg)

I've got more by the way. Feel free to pick any of these as a comparison to what you do.


File: 1331989122085.jpg (238.41 KB, 589x588, 984x588-kpwT9BS7.jpg)



File: 1331989141592.jpg (106.17 KB, 333x500, 6822654432_1a7727ffb5.jpg)


Here's a quote from a post Clowder made at the game's RPGmaker.net page.

>Also, a hefty portion of the art is completely custom and the portion that isn't was personalized.

So basically, he says right there that there's lots of completely original artwork as well. I see no reason to doubt him, since he clearly has the artistic talent, as seen in a couple posts earlier in the thread, and the picture in my post here, which was drawn by Clowder.

Also, in case you want to see the full post I'm quoting, it's post #10 at the following link.


I get it, you're a big fan of his work. My point was NOT that it looks bad. It doesn't. My point was for ME, it shows a lack of imagination. notice how i never ever said this is a bad game. I'm sure it will be good. It just takes away some of the fun for me that he didnt do it all himself. I will still try it and probably enjoy it. It's just a minor point really. You want to keep arguing, go ahead.


All's Well That Ends Well.


All's Well That Ends Well


Since we are on the subject, the other problem i have with not doing all the art himself is that, as shown in pretty much all the screenshots, there are alot of resolution inconsistencies. To be honest this is probably my main problem. If it hadn't been so obvious it was collage, i might not care as much. Since he can obviously draw, why can't he change the resolution to fit? It's a eyesore, really. I don't care if it was on purpose, it doesn't look good. A shame, really.


Your comment is an eyesore.


File: 1331992426007.jpg (175.79 KB, 600x298, Hell_City_Segment.jpg)

Looks pretty damn good to me. But then again, obvious troll is obvious.


If you can't take honest critique about the game without going ultra defensive then you are no better than the people you seem to hate so much. I'd suggest going somewhere else.

My points are valid and you know it. If you can't see it then take of your goggles.


Ok I've watched this thread from its beginning until now and I am personally fed up with all these stubborn mules bickering.

Collage is a valid art form and can make very beautiful things. An example that might grab people's attention more is Puella Magi Madoka Magica's extreme art shift for Witches and their Barriers, as seen here:
and here:

The problem here is that I agree, it's a somewhat difficult concept, a game with art done purely by collage, since it quite honestly has never really been seen or done before in any type of game, not just Yume Nikki. And I know a lot of people on here are incredibly bitter and jaded about fangames being "yume nikki recolors" (to a rather annoying extent I should say), and then there's the fans who much prefer completely originally created art (like Answered Prayers) and ones who don't mind artistic liberties taken with other games (like .flow and yume 2kki).

There are the positive users who encourage fellow game makers to continue their work even if it's not "up to par" to others' standards, and the negative ones who passive aggressively complain about these game makers and various other games in meta threads and quite honestly it needs to stop and this fighting is pretty much all of that condensed down.

Clowder's game looks very good, it seems to have very nice music and though it uses many other pieces of games to make itself, it does it artfully. Not much can be said for a lot of other fangames, or other RPG maker games overall! Many other games made with this program pull graphics from other users to make their worlds, but it all feels the same. Middens does not feel the same. Middens uses these resources to make something completely new that I have never seen in other games before.

Yes, there are makers like Moga who made all of their own art from scratch, but that is NOT the precedent! Moga is a very good artist and I love their work but not everyone can be a Moga. Or a lol. Or a Sweatshirt! Clowder's game looks promising and instead of any of you treating the arguement at hand reasonably, you've resorted to calling each other names and spamming and shitposting and shouting troll left and right.

Get your heads out of your asses and stop making fools of yourselves. Be reasonable and be sensible and stop whining about how "oh this person doesn't like collage THEY MUST BE A TROLL" and "oh this person does like collage THEY MUST NOT APPRECIATE HAND MADE ART". Calm yourselves down, stop posting collage art to shove it in other peoples' faces, stop it, just stop.

If you do not particularly like collage art, we understand, I understand, what you're trying to say and ignoring that and shouting troll is just the biggest cop-out and very rude. Defending Clowder's art and collage is fine and good too, I think its legitimacy has been firmly established but it's time to stop because it appears he has left and we need to stop drawing such negative attention to his game.

It's threads like these that make me disappointed in Uboachan's community.


If your point was meaningful you'd feel the confidence to take ownership of it and put it to a name.

You troll this thread dutifully as if you had great personal investment in this project's demise. Since you admitted being a developer, I imagine that you believe destroying the enthusiasm for other projects somehow elevates yours to greater importance. Yikes.


Thank you bleet. I think your words encapsulate the most even minded outlook.



Good post. I totally agree with the points you made there.


I think so too.


File: 1332008793067.jpg (111.1 KB, 480x640, 4182921142_48819657c1_z.jpg)

The controversy surrounding this game only makes it more intriguing to me. Personally, I enjoyed the discussion until it devolved into personal attacks. Bleet makes a very succinct summary and I largely agree.

Even so, I feel an important point has been omitted. Making a single virulent criticism of another's artistic expression does not compose a critique. A critique is a comprehensive examination of a subject that weights its opinion on the entirety of a work. Both good and bad.

I know this is an anon board, but if Uboachan it is to be a community that fosters people's creativity, then it should atleast aspire to a respectable etiquette.

I have also read the thread from beginning to now, and stating that the argument is merely a matter of not liking collage art does not explain the rudeness exhibited here. Many of the negative comments supercede simple disagreement in their deliberate meanness, and really do appear to stem from personal angst.

Here's a story that explains what I mean. I volunteer at a afterschool daycare and one of our kids is an artist. One day the other children crowded around him to see a sketch of a cat creature he'd drawn. All of them were very impressed with the drawing, except one other child who sulked in the corner. He was jealous of the attention the drawing generated and when the kids were on break he stole the drawing and ripped it in two. Because the negative comments here dont even attempt to do anything but discourage attention to this game, I really must believe its more out of malice than personal taste.

Also, I enjoyed the collage art. This is an image board. So why not.



On the contrary, i have absolutely nothing against this game. I see no reason to put a name to my opinion merely because i never do on anonymous boards. The only place i put a name to something is if it serves a purpose.

Like i have said time and time again, my opinion is just that, a opinion. If it offends you so greatly just ignore it. I at no point meant for my opinion to destroy this game for anyone, i merely stated what i thought about what little i have seen of this game. I look forward to seeing the completed work. A good day to you, i shall not say anything more before i have seen more. That does not mean my opinion changed though.


Your opinion doesn't offend anyone. Your rudeness does. Its a not matter of what is said but how it is said.


You mentioned you're a developer. What game are you developing?


Ok, guys, I wanna know why you're all fighting, but TL;DR thread. So, if you could describe this thread in one sentence, what would it be?




I'm pretty sure your post wasn't directed towards me, but whatever. I figure it's about time I got a name anyway.

Edit: There we go! Now you'll all be able to tell how nice a guy and/or how big an asshole I am!

Not sure if anyone cares but, I was >>4373, >>4619, >>4646, and >>4657 in this thread. If any of those posts seemed rude or ended up stirring things up, then I apologize, since that definitely wasn't my intention.

Edit2: Before anyone asks; There's still no edit feature.



Also, seems I messed up the tripcode. Could someone tell me how that works?


It looks like you did it right.
Read this (it's from the ponychan FAQ):
To use a tripcode instead of just writing your name in the "Name" field, write your_name#your_code - the #your_code part will be automatically replaced by !tripcode.
Here's the link to the faq too (though not everything works the same on Uboachan; such as mark-up).

For what it's worth, I don't think you were rude at all, in my opinion.

Basically, some people were unhappy after it was realized that most (though not all) of the art in this game was "derived" from other games/sources, and then people started arguing about collage art (since that is the art style OP uses, and is now surrounded in controversy).

You may also want to read bleet's post [ >>4654 ]
It's pretty long, but it addresses most of the things said in this thread.


Were people to adopt that user's manner of speaking when discussing all threads here this board would quickly alienate all its developers. Imagine if I used some of their language to describe your wife.

The anon is also obviously posing as multiple people which is neurotic and creepy. They admit
being a creator, but later assert that post belonged to another user to avoid the question of what game they're developing–though all their posts continue a blatantly contingent thread of dialogue. Scroll up and you'll see what I mean.




Thanks for the help. I think I've got it working now.


I mean it when I said we should stop this nonsense. Leave that anon alone, stop trying to bring up ridiculous things. Everything is over and this thread was just about to die quietly.

Shut it down, we're done here.



No, I don't think expect a chan board to be goody-goody. There is a difference between critiquing (even critiquing while acting like an asshole), being goody-goody, and being just retarded.

>grasp on reality

so overdramatic


File: 1332135286899.jpg (61.91 KB, 474x640, Mariola Bogacki paintings.jpg)

The artist may have left, but that doesn't preclude visitors from sharing their thoughts. The game is still in production which makes it relevant for discussion. So long as posts are civil and pertain to the thread it merits continuation.


Indeed. This is still the Middens thread (or at least it's supposed to be) after all.


Guys, this game is amazing. Do any of the other fangame artists use totally original work? I really doubt it. Even if everything else was totally original, Clowder is doing an amazing job. This game is going to me a masterpiece the likes of which this fangames board has rarely (if ever) seen before. I am really looking forward to it.



I use original artwork (which is why my game is taking a billion years right now; the tiles are four times larger), but as I said before I'm a fan of John Clowder's work. I'm really hoping we at least get an update when he publishes the game (I'm not very active on RMN, you see.)



I'm keeping an eye on the game's RMN page, so I'll probably mention it here if he or someone else doesn't first.


I've also an eye on the RMN page and I follow the Tumblr. I'll step up and offer any relevant updates when they come along.


File: 1333659158882.gif (388.48 KB, 875x373, New-Alt-II.gif)

Doesn't appear anyone is going to post this, so I'll go on ahead. From Clowder's website:

"Progress Report

Middens is now approaching its final stages of development. Rather than pluck the game before it’s ripe, I plan to take the next three months to bug test, refine and edit. The expected release date is now late summer with the bulls eye target being June. Cheers everyone"

In other news there was an announcement that the resolution was rehauled, and a few designs and screenshots posted.


Here's the latest progress report on the game's site:

"Middens Progress Report

At this juncture the game has been vividly manifested and is in the editing process, though development on Middens will be extended into August to accentuate important facets and features. The first release of the game will shortly follow subsequent to proof testing. In the meantime here is a general litany of some of what the game has to offer:

-Over one hundred hand-crafted creature portraits.

-More than twenty hand painted collectible curios.

-Dialogue salvaged from the last words of executed inmates. ;p

-Seventy plus original musical tracks.

-A unique open ended world and storyline synthesized from my literary works.


-Custom environments and sprites.

In other news; beginning last month I started organizing resources for two additional projects. The foremost of these is an interactive adaptation of the ‘Tibetan Book of the Dead’. Further details on that project will be released alongside Middens in August.



While i do find it amusing, do anyone really speak or write the way he does? I guess he does it for dramatic effect.

Anyway, I will be playing this when it comes out.


File: 1341458161871.jpg (163.38 KB, 645x649, 1334022644762.jpg)

>that feel when you will never be as good as Clowder
>it is useless to even try
>consider dropping development of your own game because you will never top Middens
>consider commiting sudoku
Why ;_;


File: 1345834465295.jpg (245.16 KB, 800x503, Game Over Small.jpg)

An update on the game's page announced Middens will be released on September twenty first. The release date was stated in this short trailer for the game: http://middens.tumblr.com/post/29649545806/transcript-everyone-needs-a-release-once-in


Game looks great. Was lurking it for a long time and didn't wanna join the shitstorm, but it's great that the game is finally coming to release. I hope we could use this thread for discussion when it's out.


actually i would myself like a fresh thread for discussion when its released

aaaaaand maybe in /og/ instead since i think its far more different than any yume nikki fangame apart from "exploration and surrealism in a dreamlike world"

it certainly feels different, and even if he called YN inspiration with a few other games and such in a tumblr post, mr clowder probably should have put it in /og/. there would have been less of a chance for shitstorm too. no matter though, that's gone to pass anyway and the subjects been dropped

but i gotta say i've been excited for this game forever. cant wait to get into it when i get the chance, hopefully my lack of gaming hasnt made me so soft that i cant walk through an empty hallway where nothing happens and music droning creepily in the background doesnt eat away at my sanity


So uh Middens is out now
Do with that info as you wish


The moment I saw emoticons in the dialogue and all that LOL SO RANDUMB stuff, I realized I was lucky not to expect this game. Would've been in for a bigger disappointment.


If you dislike random stuff, you're surely on the wrong board?
I agree about the emoticons though, they make it seem unprofessional.
There are also so many passability errors that it's ridicilous.
Still, it's by no means a bad game, from what I can tell so far.
Sure it,s random, but I kinda like it. You can also tell that the graphics are thrown together from various sources, but if you can accept that and ignore the various resolutions they are taken from, it looks pretty good for the most part.
I believe this is Clowders first try at gamemaking? If so, it's very good for a first try. Especially compared to most of the stuff that gets posted on this board.


I dunno, the emoticons never bothered me. She's a gun with eyes and big lips and while I'll never know what she's babbling about she still makes me smile.

I spent most of the game running away from encounters until I was muffled and died ;v; Exploring what I got to was rather fun except for that damn baby area. UGH I wanted to leave but I wanted to make sure I had everything all the while trying not to puncture my eardrum so I didn't have to listen to all that crying.

As far as errors go, I accidentally picked up 2 guns in the beginning so that looked odd in my invo screen. I can also count on my hands all the areas where I moved willy nilly through the walls or appeared to be climbing up the walls.

But as you said it is enjoyable and he did finish it which is more then you can say about most games here. I'll have more to say about it when I pick it up again. I was dead tired by the time I stopped last night and well time makes fools of us all.


I downloaded and beat the game last night, and really enjoyed it for the most part. The battle sprites are especially lovely.

I don't relate to the criticism of the emoticons whatsoever(It never even passed my mind.

I did come across some passability errors but this is the first release version, and I expect that those will be corrected in subsequent versions.


Some of the passabilities must be deliberate because I discovered a few lead to otherwise hidden areas.


Those are probably places you are supposed to use "Accoustics" to get to. I noticed that you can bypass the need for that in a few places too, by walking on a mailbox for example. If it's intentional it's not good either way. It looks odd (not in a good way).


No actually, I never thought to go near the mailboxes. If you hug the righthand side of the hallway descending downward(from the same room with the mailboxes) you'll find a secret passage that leads to an off-map room and creature.


Loving it so far but I must be playing a revised version because I haven't stumbled across any hiccups yet. Making blood puddles of the cute sprites is working on my heart strings though lol.


There's a VERY bold line between random and XD RANDUMB.


It's not any more random than a Victorian girl conversing with a hookah smoking caterpillar, or a man waking up as a beetle, or a disturbed Japanese child visiting a world of eyesballs to develop a midget transforming power for that matter.


File: 1348355840698.bmp (900.05 KB, 640x480, uh oh.bmp)

Wow, this game needs some work. I really enjoy the art, and the surreality of everything, but after playing for only 10 minutes, I noticed quite a few bugs. I screened one of them. Just in that area, when you take out your guitar, you're able to move around, while playing it, and the sprite just glides around the screen. When you even can play the guitar, half the time when I tried to the game didn't respond at all. Also, when I tried to get back from that area, I moved right off the platform and started walking around the background. Apart from that I noticed a lot of scattered tiles that aren't where they're supposed to be in the desert-y area (sometimes there would be just the tops of the telephone poles, scattered around the map). For some reason the game also lags like a bitch even though the starting area didn't seem necessarily that big, but that could be because I don't have the best computer. All the other Yume Nikki games run fine for me though.

Just a suggestion, it's not completely necessary, but I found the controls a little confusing. Maybe because I'm so used to Yume Nikki's controls, but I found it a little awkward that the Enter key was the action button. I think the "fire" button was both Shift and Z. You might wanna use one of those for the action button. It makes it more comfortable is all. And lastly, I think you should remove the emoticons because it sort of takes away from the game. It makes it feel sort of unprofessional somehow. It would look better if you animated the gun (and any other characters that are using emoticons) so that it shows their expressions in the actual sprite, similar to The Looking Glass' conversation function. Or just not have the emoticon text.


The tops of the telephone pulls is probably intentional because there's ruins throughout those areas. They're buried in the sand. I haven't had any issues with the guitar though, that's strange. What version are you playing?


I'm playing 1.92 and the guitar works normally(I assme) for me. The characters resituates himself slightly when you use the guitar but there's no gliding or anything. Maybe you should contact Clowder and ask what's up?


File: 1348811617761.png (85.36 KB, 214x249, AAAAAY SEXY LADY.PNG)

>battling a certain train
>defeated the train
>as soon as im in the overworld again another battle with the train initiates

is this a glitch or the game telling me to drop and give it 20

and how the hell do i even fuckin beat the game in the first place

do i just kill everything in my path or is there another way because sometimes i feel like a dick for putting something down when it pleads me no.

no spoilers for the endings please i just wanna know if theres a way to beat it


There is. Keep on doing whatever you're doing, your companion will eventually hint you at the further actions.

On the side note, protag design is fucking boss. So are A Series Of Hiccups and Commuters.


So, is this good ?


I think so, just as enjoyable if not more then most of the "big title" YN fangames. I was hooked for quite a while. Just beware the steep difficulty curve at the beginning

You should at least give it a try


I wanted something to practice my editing on, and this game didnt have an article yet.

Feel free to add stuff.



I'm probably going to initiate a whole lot of pointless drama by bumping this but what exactly is it about this thread that left so many people with a sour taste in their mouth? Upon rereading it it seems to me that the amount of posts that are defending the game and belittling those who would dismiss it based on early bugs and its (in my opinion awesome) art-style far outweigh the people who hated on it for no good reason. Or maybe they both exist in portions close to even; in that case, it got a better reception than most games this out there would, even here.

Maybe I'm not combing this thing thoroughly enough to find the posts that offended people aside from the ones about the emote status effects and the other trivial shit that I notice.


don't necrobump faggot


Clowder is obviously samefagging through the whole thread, trying to defend his shitty game and stolen graphics. What an untalented hack.


Middens is the piss christ to the religious fanatics of this board. Folks shit themselves over Dada aswell. Calling collage stealing is like calling street art vandalism.



>Calling collage stealing is like calling street art vandalism.

Anon, I'm sorry to disappoint you, but street art is actually vandalism, regardless if it's some stupid graffiti some random kid made thinking it may be cool to put his shitty sign there or a master of arts with the best drawing skills.
Not like saying collage is wrong nor that I consider it stealing, but that argument you put there is simply too retarded.


Ain't stealing graphics common issue here, anyway? Not mentioning recycling Mado's charset, even games like Miserere recycle graphics found on internet. Which fangame doesn't do that? Instead of butthurting about that "stolen graphics", try to actually get immersed in the game and simply enjoy it. End of story.


File: 1398385305822.gif (30.82 KB, 100x125, 1505.gif)

He doesn't even do a very good job changing the sprites he used.


I don't seem them as being that similar.


Yume Nikki uses a ton of sprites from Earthbound Zero and the SNES version. It also borrows from many generic made tilesets.


File: 1398387307639.png (677 B, 107x115, 998.png)

The NES Madotsuki is just a revamp of a zero sprite, for instance. There's many more examples though.



One thing is taking inspiration from something and other is stealing.


File: 1398387798177.png (54.21 KB, 255x189, 1331169100150.png)

"Good artists copy, great artists steal."
-Pablo Picasso

“If you think a man draws the type of hands that you want to draw, steal ‘em. Take those hands.”
—Jack Kirby



Wow, argumentum ad verecundiam, must be right then.


I think this argument was already won 100 years ago when collage became an accepted artform.


I don't think radically changing the sprites is the point.


We had a thread about this on /v/ the other day, i just wanted you all asshats to remember how fucking embarrassing this thread was



>actually caring about what a bunch of 12 years old think about us

yeah, were you afraid of youtube kid too?

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