No and no.
No and no, most people can't even finish small fangames, I don't have faith in the devs of this era of YNFGs.
You need a group of responsible adults, each one doing their part, for a long period of time.
We have people more than capable of managing such task, but all the good players are already working on their projects and won't abandon them for a volatile idea like this.
And what for? I mean, we kind of see what's the result of it, there are new demos all the time, they get like 10 downloads each, and about team YNFGs, you got Ototsu Yume, no one is giving a shit about it either.
There is no hype for fangames in the YN community and the fags in tumblr struggle to keep it active with continuous "game jams", as if it was life support.
The community is all about quantity and nothing about quality, no one even completes their games, to be blunt, I wouldn't play a YNFG unless it got great reviews or it's made by a cool dev, like Owl or something.
Guess what, OP – no time like the present to start making one.
Or, I guess we could do the next best thing – toss around some ideas for a game like that. That's how 2kki itself has originated, no reason why it wouldn't work here.
>>13465>no reason why it wouldn't work here
it didn't come to be anything
Just post your ideas if you have any. No commitment required.
I think we should make peace with Tumblr and merge their dead collab project with our dead collab project to save work.
Also, we might as well cannibalize all the DDJ fangames while we're at it. None of these will ever see any development beyond what they are anyway. If only people were more okay with sharing a spotlight rather than singling themselves out as "THE CREATOR OF THE BEST YNFG EVA!!!!" then we might see some actual progress on a western Y2K.
The problem is that Tumblr already tried doing that with their game when they moved it to 8chan, in some strange effort to attract attention. I'm not sure why they'd want to move the community over there, but regardless that seemed to fail. I'm not sure if it was the choice of platform, or simply because it started on Tumblr, with has since been consumed with the game jam meme rather than actually working on a real game to be enjoyed.
What I meant was separating the people who actually contribute to the game from the community of their origin.
What would that mean anyway? Keeping all in-progress versions and discussions in a closed community, like Discord? But that would defeat the purpose of the game being a community effort, wouldn't it?
2kki had a bunch of people actually doing shit back in the day if I'm not mistaken. I don't know how big the community is, but I think everyone has contributed something or other. Development has slowed down, but anyone's free to contribute. Whether their contributions are shit or not however are unsupervised. But it's better moderated than back then, likely because of the massive amount of authors and because it was so new they didn't have standards. A lot of content still in the game I don't think would be as appreciated nowadays.
2kki was made in a very open environment on 2ch.
There's another problem too, you see, we're not in the same place as 5 years ago, the success of a game is not only determined by actual effort but by trends as well.
Let's analyze for a second where we stand.
YNFGs are not as played as before, and nowhere near as hyped as before, the community over YN has expanded, but name one big YNFG from the last two years.
The idea is a collab/community fangame like 2kki, but western, the western 2kki…but we already got a 2kki, people will just rather play that, no one will play this, it will get 10 downloads and die like your average solo YNFG, the idea is not good enough.
To gain the heart of a bored community saturated with bad fangames you need:
>Another idea, with at least one thing that makes it different from 2kki, offering a real alternative to 2kki and not just "le western 2kki xd"
>A decent core team to lead the noobs, the 1% of the people who will do 90% of the job, and in this team, you need someone who can actually market and spread it correctly.
People from different communities, this one inclued, have tried and failed because they failed to organize these specific issues.
>I think we should make peace with Tumblr
It's not like we want a war with Tumblr, if you check the DDJ thread you will notice they are contantly trying to start shit, there are captures of how their Discord history is obsessed wih us, and of course we make fun of that here, which doesn't help, you need both sides to agree.
A western 2kki would be interest in my opinion. The Japanese and the West have very different styles and sensibilities. Compare any western YNFG with a Japanese one, and you'll see obvious differences. A good English YNFG is hard to find, but what few there are really do feel very different from the Japanese fangames. You won't see anything like Me or Fleshchild there. Even the most traditional games like Answered Prayers feel really different, and Answered Prayers is really a weeb game.
There's a different stylistic standard there and I'm interested in seeing how a collab project would compare/contrast with 2kki. And it won't have no value, it could rejuvenate this dying community, though that's unlikely. But it would be fun to see everyone's ideas and how they compare. 2kki is already more like an "art exhibition" so to see something like that from the western community would be pretty cool. A lot of devs here try and push RPGM as far as it can go with flashier effects and exploitations of the formula, while the Japanese fans tend to make simpler, yet beautiful projects.
How many times are you genuises gonna say "we need ideas" before you actually start suggesting some? Oh wait, I guess I'm guilty of that just as well.
Alright, so back in the day when 2kki existed only as a very rough prototype, some fellow posted a bunch of sketches. The all had a common theme – childlike openness to the world and artistic expression as a cognate of that. It's debatable how much of that made it into the game, but as a foundation it would work wonderfully. There's a timeless air about a story like that, and it's a perfect ﬁt for a female protag.
Or we could go an entirely opposite way. A male protag in a story about regaining conﬁdence in yourself and forging your own way in the world. And as an opposite to that, descent into violence and loss of personal identity in the collective. Which would sure as hell be trendy, if the look of most modern imageboards is to be believed.
Or-r-r…the very much obvious choice – both themes at once. Two intertwined stories, or perhaps two outlooks on the same dream world, Hallucigenia-style. At the end of the day there's a lot of things to experiment with. The only reason why it wouldn't work is if potential creators themselves refuse to cooperate.
>There's a timeless air about a story like that
I meant the story of regaining "childlike openness to the world", somehow I've dropped that from my initial comment.
>>13493>The only reason why it wouldn't work is if potential creators themselves refuse to cooperate.
and rightfully so, we have seen it failing more than once, all the known creators here are working on their own projects and even making money and won't abandon them to be part of something as volatile as this without some sign of possible success.
Want to change that? Seduce us, show us the idea is worth our valuable time and why, we'll be watching.
What if it wouldn't require much commitment? Least of all abandoning a job that pays your bills. That's how 2kki has worked throughout its existence anyway – whoever has time and interest to contribute, does, whoever doesn't, doesn't.
That's already the Tumblr project. Ours was sick girl in a hospice or something.
I'd propose a mingling of these concepts. Androgynous kid leaning more towards male in a grungy hospital (third world?) environment. I don't guess there really needs to be an overarching theme or story if it'll be a community thing. They can have happy dreams, sad dreams, nightmares, or revenge fantasies. It might be cool to have an LSD inspired corkboard that maps your progress and tells you how positive/negative the story is going. Pc's features and room change according. The "darker" you go into a dream, by using the weapon effect, getting caught by chasers, or triggering bad events, might cause the PC to become vaguely more masculine, and the room the get dirtier and emptier. As opposed to good dreams, which make make the protag more effeminate and make their room feel cosy and comfortable in subtle ways.
They could leave their room. Explore the hallway or whatever. At it's darkest setting the door would be locked. They might be on quarantine.
A plethora of interpretations may be involved from this scenario. They might be transgender, they might be sick with a horrible illness, they might be in a coma, they might be patient zero in a zombie apocalypse, they might be there for something mundane or routine, they might be giants, they might not have healthcare or are in some horror hospital in another country, they might simply be visiting, they're dying in a hospice, they've had a stroke/brain damage, they're that burn chick from Katawa Shoujo, or they aren't actually in a hospital, it's actually a snuff film basement made to look like a hospital.
The hospital interpretation is also fluid. It may look like an apartment or hotel room the better it gets. The more nightmares and malicious dreams you have, it simply becomes sparsely decorated and rusty, resembling a poorly maintained hospital room. You may see uninterested NPCs outside some times who don't talk to you. I don't want to crib on moonLess*L having a weird cloning apartment multi dreamers thing.
Though another idea I had is a whopping 12 dreamers themed after months. They'd each have their own unique dreams, no recycling areas or NPCs. This idea comes from the observation I had that Japanese months end in -tsuki. But I do wonder if such a concept would be too "heavy" for one game. Even with a crew or people, it'd be like twelve separate fangames molded into one.
Remember Solitude? Do you really want that to happen again? Like >>13495
said, all notable devfags residing in this board have either left or have moved on to better ventures. Not even a few months ago we had one of these "community projects" for an eroge fangame and not even a logo was made.
To truly have a ready-built community game, you'd need to have a proof-of-concept and get the snowball rolling from there. If it proves to be something worth or promising, then people will flock in. Is it a chicken and egg problem? Maybe. But there needs to be a foundation to support it.
As for "ideas", none would be for the best I'd assume. Going with something too focused only detracts from potential additions. Look at 2kki, the game is basically just Yume Nikki+ and has no clear focus on tone, that's part of the reason why it works so well as a project. Roll the dice and make up something from there.
>>13497> I don't guess there really needs to be an overarching theme or story if it'll be a community thing.
Well, that's how you get a mediocre self-indulgent wankfest.
Also I think your thought process is backwards. You don't create things by starting from the interpretation – at least not things that aren't obvious to the point of being cringy. You need an image of your hero and a goal they would try to reach. That's the necessary foundation from which the rest proceeds, and it applies to pretty much all ﬁction.>>13498>you'd need to have a proof-of-concept and get the snowball rolling from there
I was trying to start a discussion from which one could be made afterwards, but fuck me apparently.>>13499>A bunch of people masturbating over how clever and unique they are without making anything of their own to show for it.
I think it more depends on what kind of story >you'd need to have a proof-of-concept and get the snowball rolling from there
(last part got screwed, let me try again)>>13499>A bunch of people masturbating over how clever and unique they are without making anything of their own to show for it.
I think it more depends on what kind of story you're trying to tell – if it's something pretty much anyone can relate to, then the contributions enrich the game. If it's something more personal (or plain trendy) then yes, what you've said would apply.
To anybody that wants to write a story, never start by thinking of plot beats and character traits(especially superficial stuff) like ingredients to just throw in and make a check mark.
Why is this back after so many years?
Because nobody in this entire site knows how to move on.
If you don't like this place you can leave.
But that's… literally how Yume Nikki was written?
That's how 2kki came about.
And I highly doubt .flow actually started with the whole "rust" story.
I was just suggesting dumb shit off the top of my head for a "what sort of excuse can we have for a fangame that's pretty much just a dev art gallery showcase". I never meant that shit seriously as a plot, I just thought we were tossing out ideas for a game that'll never happen. There's bound to be other things, but that was just some bullshit I came up with amalgamating Solitude with the Tumblr fangame. Since neither was good, it obviously produced an even crappier result, but no one else was coming up with anything and I just wanted to answer >>13493
I mean, if we were to make an actual story then by all means. But we aren't gonna and this is just hypothetical fun times. If we did do something I'd like something like B☆RS where girls/Mado recolors kill each other in their dream worlds.
Eh. Like you said it's interpretative. Personally I don't think Kikiyama had anything in mind making it honestly. It's just his art, sketches, and doodles. You'll find a similar world in any art student's journal, except they generally don't have the desire to animate these things. The website even says there's no story, it's all just in your head.
Then again, I'm probably just jaded over the fact that the devs of a few other artsy games I've seen have openly stated that there's no real story there, they just bullshitted the whole thing.
You may have a story/character personalities in mind even if the ﬁnal game doesn't show them. It's just used to get a sense of structure.
I'm pretty sure the biggest part that makes Nikki feel so cohesive (or rather, the way it messes with your head to the point where you accept everything that happens in the game as reasonable) is its audio, both SE and BGM. Those atonal amnient tracks coupled with the rhythm of footsteps do most of the work for the impression. Also the game doesn't use autotiles much (if at all), so the visuals feel more fresh compared to other RPG Maker games. As for .ﬂow, I'm pretty sure the core design was something like "Yume Nikki, but with generic horror visuals". Why was it so popular then? Hell if I know. I guess deep inside we all love us some generic horror.
Anyway, back to the point I was trying to make. If we were to make a game of any interest, we could go two potential ways: either ﬁnd some artistic trend yet unused in the genre (if such a thing is even conceivable) and try to implement it, or just establish our own theme and follow it. So long as the theme isn't too obvious or too spelled out in the game, it should work ﬁne.
A pseudo-showcase of art could potentially work, but it still needs some sort of structure to be truly enjoyable. Too much randomness gets old fast.
It'd save a lot of time to read this thread before deja vu'ing further >>10751
Well that was a waste of time. A whole lot of pseudointellectual wankery, not even a single idea posted. No wonder it all died fast.
I thought this was more like hypothetical idea posting game suggestion fun times Though a part of me understands why everyone's so silent. Uboachan isn't really populated by creative types or people interested in that stuff, it's mostly critics. The whole "hopeful attitude" died a while ago with the old board and it's just never recovered.
explain>>13522>it's mostly critics
Implying criticism doesn't take creativity. The problem with dicking around with ideas(especially in thread that wasn't created for that) is that it's completely non-productive and ultimately frustrating. If people really want to make something, they will. Talking about it and being hopeful just leads to disappointment. There's people on the site actually working on stuff, no less than in most other places, it's just people aren't interested in keeping up a veneer that we're all such innovative artists. We're not /co/.
>>13522>Uboachan isn't really populated by creative types or people interested in that stuff
Uboachan has plenty of productive creators, but like I said before, until there's a hint of something worth anyone's time, this is not going anywhere.
An idea worth attention is something innovative, not the same formulas that have gotten old failing to catch anyone's attention for the past 4 or 5 years.
It can even be a traditional fangame, but adapted to today's trends of art and narrative.
>>13523>explain>"oh I give it 2 weeks">"oh I give it 1 week">"oh I give it 0 weeks"
As if trying to do a collab game is so commonplace everyone is totally tired of it.
And then there's that atrocious argument about save function. I swear, it's like people here deliberately look for the dumbest shit to obsess over.
>The problem [ideas] is that it's completely non-productive and ultimately frustrating
How in the world can that be counter-productive, it's literally square one in production of everything!? Well, everything that requires effort of more than one person, that is. So, how else do you think the process should go?
I think the real problem is that nobody here actually likes the genre, and only comes here to get their attention fix and to act smug for no reason. And the so-called 'artists' are the biggest offenders of that. "If that makes it to 20 maps, I'll contribute". "Give me a good reason to participate". Hello, buddy, this isn't some sort of charity that you donate your money to, it's about paying tribute to the genre and exploring ideas. Not good enough reason for you? Well, why don't you just move along then and spare everyone your condescending remarks.
Oooo, we've got a real fan over here. We're all just larping guys. This is the real deal.>As if trying to do a collab game is so commonplace everyone is totally tired of it.
Something doesn't have to be commonplace to be boring. Also, we're not talking about any collab game, the specific idea is western 2kki. You're just looking for any way to spin people's skepticism in a way that makes them look bad. It doesn't work.>How in the world can that be counter-productive
I said non-productive. Ideas are cheap. Creative planning in a game is necessary, but throwing darts at wall by itself doesn't lead to anything. If you've used this site for any amount of time you would understand that.>So, how else do you think the process should go?
Two ways. One guy bunkers down, makes their game, and releases it. The other way involves money. Even if you do manage to assemble a team for a passion project, everybody should know what they're doing and they should have a private communication channel. When somebody assembles a team like that i'll get excited. >I think the real problem is that nobody here actually likes the genre
Nope. I personally don't like 2kki and think a western version isn't worth making. >Hello, buddy, this isn't some sort of charity that you donate your money to
Well it is charity when people come expecting other people to do all the work in their vanity project. The purpose of this god damn thread wasn't even to actually make a western a 2kki clone. People were reasonably skeptical about the chances of it happening, and then other people just starting saying why they think it would be interesting without really thinking too hard to what they were writing. If you're so passionate about, "the genre", why don't you prove it?
>>13527>Oooo, we've got a real fan over here. We're all just larping guys. This is the real deal.
No need to take things personally, I'm not trying to insult anyone.>Also, we're not talking about any collab game, the specific idea is western 2kki.
What's the difference? 2kki is a collab game, we're talking a western collab game. Or do you mean "a western game that would be as popular as 2kki" when you say "western 2kki"? Well, you can't realistically plan for things like that, and I'll give it to you that regarding such plans with scepticism is reasonable. However, I was talking about the potential concepts and ideas for the game, and only that. Nothing of the reception, nothing of any parallels with 2kki.>I said non-productive. Ideas are cheap. Creative planning in a game is necessary, but throwing darts at wall by itself doesn't lead to anything.
I mistyped it, but my point stands. Vast majority of projects start with a concept, and if we're talking a collab project then the next logical step is to toss around ideas inside the community. It might seem ineffectual in the grand scheme of things, and if no one does anything afterwards then it is, in fact, a waste of time, but it's still an essential step to make things happen.>Two ways. One guy bunkers down, makes their game, and releases it
But that wouldn't a collab game, now would it? I know that people in western communities like to claim content that was first released on their platform, even if they didn't lift a finger to make it, but I was talking a true collab – one where actual different people contribute in different ways.>Even if you do manage to assemble a team for a passion project, everybody should know what they're doing and they should have a private communication channel. When somebody assembles a team like that i'll get excited.
And that still wouldn't be a collab project, it would be just a team production.>Well it is charity when people come expecting other people to do all the work in their vanity project.
Broken record reporting in: it's not, and it never was about vanity. At least as far as I'm arguing in favor of it, maybe other people have different angles on that. And the fact that you assume it was kind of proves my point about people only caring about their egos.>If you're so passionate about, "the genre", why don't you prove it?
I keep this conversation afloat, I read through people's reactions, I explain my points over and over, what else do you expect me to do? Make a game on my own, and then pretend Ubuu had something to do with it? I could do that, but what's the point? If people can't even humor the concept with some ideas of their own, then it's not gonna be a joint effort, even if it does happen in the end.>I personally don't like 2kki and think a western version isn't worth making.
Oh, that settles it. If only you'd also explain why are you in this thread, discussing a subject you fundamentally dislike.
>>13528>What's the difference?
2kki's style is fast and loose. It's a complete mismash of ideas. Something with a very clear and strong premise everybody had to conform to would make me more interested at least. A stronger gate when it comes to quality would also make any contribution feel more worthwhile. Making a game for the sake of something like, "western 2kki", isn't as appealing as making a game for the sake of what the game actually is. For that you need a project leader that people know is qualified. Also, a nikki table tennis game could also be a collab.>f no one does anything afterwards then it is, in fact, a waste of time
That's exactly what would have happened. Nobody actually shut the thing down, anybody who posted an idea on this thread could a started a new one dedicated to the project, but they haven't.>explain why are you in this thread, discussing a subject you fundamentally dislike
Because this is a discussion board and people are allowed to disagree with each other here.
>>13529>Because this is a discussion board and people are allowed to disagree with each other here.
Hey, I'm all about that, it's just that your initial response made it seem like you wouldn't care either way, so naturally I was dismissive myself.>2kki's style is fast and loose. It's a complete mismash of ideas. Something with a very clear and strong premise everybody had to conform to would make me more interested at least. […] For that you need a project leader that people know is qualified.
Even so, I'd say 2kki has a great deal of common themes established throughout, but that's beside the point. Let's assume that you are the project leader in question, qualified like nobody else. What would you suggest as a core premise?
Or, ignoring that, just what is this premise supposed to entail? Is it something like a stylistic limitation (like say, industrial theme), is it something like the characters and their designs, is it something gameplay-related? Can you elaborate on what is it exactly you'd expect to see?
First of all, if you don't like the place you can leave.
Collabs have happened enough times to know it's a terrible idea without the appropriate setup, and we don't have it, at least one attractive idea is necessary, because one of us, I'm guessing not you, will have to open the engine and work on it.
Not to mention the stereotypical "idea guys" all of us who make games have to deal inside and outside this site.
Uboachan users have done a lot for the Yume Nikki community, I think we like the genre just enough, and not giving the YNFG Wiki another unfinished kusoge my friend, is an act of love.
Only one anon ITT has posted an idea for a plot that failed to catch anyone's interest, we don't have to think ideas for this, making a collab wasn't our idea, Uboachan's creators owe you nothing, if you want us to take this seriously, convince us of why we should.
>>13530>What would you suggest as a core premise?
I don't really see spewing ideas to be particularly useful, but fine.
Maybe the game could about kind of, "reaper", that looks looks like a floating eyeball with wings or something. This reaper can go inside of a metaphysical world made up of human minds. Inside they have to collect pieces of the person's soul represented by objects(effects). Traversing the world is difficult, so effects will sort of act like hms from pokemon, you need them to progress further. Maybe there could an extra emphasis on problem solving and puzzles. Different parts of the mind can either represent memories of the real world(realistic) or personality and thoughts(very abstract). The game would have 30-40 worlds max that other people could contribute. Once that number is reached, the rest of the development would focus on refining those worlds. Being stuck in the person's mind and not having any room to go back to could create the sense that you're trapped until you finish your job. Whether or not the person is actually dead yet or not could also be left ambiguous. Leaving stuff like what you actually are or what you're trying to do vague would make things more mysterious. Maybe implying the reaper was also human at some point would be interesting.
Nothing about this idea necessitates it being a collab, but something like this would interest me. A novel premise, a clear theme that still leaves room for my personal input, and limitations that make sure the game doesn't even up being a clusterfuck. Notice how easy it was for me to just come up with that at the drop of a hat?
>>13532>Being stuck in the person's mind and not having any room to go back to
Also, it would make sense if you could go back to the nexus instantly since you can't, "wake up".
>>13532>I don't really see spewing ideas to be particularly useful, but fine.
But it's the first step in ev…you know what, whatever. We're finally out of the deadlock.>A novel premise, a clear theme that still leaves room for my personal input, and limitations that make sure the game doesn't even up being a clusterfuck.
I'm not sure if what you've described counts as a limitation, the structure is more or less identical to that of 2kki, only instead of implicit separation by different authors' styles, there's an explicit separation by different characters' mental worlds. Also I guess the idea is to make worlds closed and claustrophobic rather than the usual open and barren. I actually have an idea a little close to that, only except of reaper it would be a ghost (hello, last collab thread) working in some sort of TV station, and every broadcast in there would correspond to some person's dream world. Since people here are all about that juicy meta commentary, that could potentially get some traction. All in all your idea seems pretty serviceable.>Notice how easy it was for me to just come up with that at the drop of a hat?
Exactly. Which makes me wonder once again, why isn't everyone doing it? I understand not wanting to draw, or make sprites, basically do anything that requires effort, but not even wanting to talk? How is that hard to do? "Oh no, someone's gonna dislike my idea, and then I'll be sad". Cmon, that's just childish.
Although on second thought it's hardly a novel idea. In fact, I'm pretty sure a game with a concept exactly like that is in development right here and right now.
>>13534>I understand not wanting to draw, or make sprites, basically do anything that requires effort, but not even wanting to talk? How is that hard to do? "Oh no, someone's gonna dislike my idea, and then I'll be sad". Cmon, that's just childish.
I'm personally just here in case things look worthy enough to offer myself as an eventer or pixel artist, and what's childish is all these petty taunts ITT to coarce us into collaborating, this also may discourage others of giving you their ideas.
>>13534>I'm not sure if what you've described counts as a limitation
I meant that by limiting the number of locations. 2kki has around 261. For comparison Yume Nikki has 40. A clusterfuck where people keep dumping half-baked junk isn't something I'd want to contribute to because even if I put in lot of effort into my part, it would be drowned out. >but not even wanting to talk? How is that hard to do? "Oh no, someone's gonna dislike my idea, and then I'll be sad". Cmon, that's just childish.
It's a waste of energy and almost never actually leads to anything. Have you actually been reading other people's posts? If I feel like making a game and I have the time, I will. >>13535
The only similarity is that you're going in another person's head instead of your own. Everything else, including gameplay, differs.
>>13537>A clusterfuck where people keep dumping half-baked junk isn't something I'd want to contribute to because even if I put in lot of effort into my part, it would be drowned out.
I really think you're being unfair towards 2kki, but whatever. I wonder though, if a game director of sorts somehow rearranged "junk" and high-effort content in a way that would make it harmonious and leave it like that, would you find that more acceptable? I'm just curious.>Have you actually been reading other people's posts?
Oh, you have no idea.>If I feel like making a game and I have the time, I will.
Doubt it. Not to rag on you or anyone else, but even if talking about games seems like too much effort, there's not a slightest chance you'll actually commit to producing one. Kinda sad, but what can you do. Can't do passion projects when there's no passion to speak of.
lol uboatards cant make a game lmao that is why they dont help with the idea.
you guys really live in the past, no one here has completed a game since 2014 except Noyemi who doesnt even post here anymore.
and you seriously need to overcome your failed project trauma, Solitude devs at least tried, and DDJ devs upload playable content every year, yall the lowest form of life.
I abandoned the vomitive shithole uboachan is quite some time ago and I'm not going back there now, don't ever associate me with these "people" if they could even be called that
>>13538>but even if talking about games seems like too much effort
I think you're missing the point. We've seen this enough times to know how it goes. This is, like, the fifth or sixth thread I see on any western site that speaks of making a "collab project like 2kki" since, what, 2011? They failed every single time. Not because they didn't have the effort to talk; actually, that's all they ever did. The only project that got anywhere close to anything tangible is that utsutsu yume or however it was called, which was canceled anyway because nobody but the devs and 20 other guys played it. Do you want 2kki's ideas? Check the other 6 threads, there's "le dev discussion" galore on those.
Want to make something? Okay, you have the ideas, how about laying out the platforms for organizing this project and actually showing any sign of interest other than talking? I can't stress this enough. We've seen that enough times already. Want a change, go make it too, otherwise you wouldn't be anything but hypocritical.>>13539
0/10 try again.
>>13541>how about laying out the platforms for organizing this project
…shit, you're right. Even 2kki has established a wiki to serve as an aggregator of threads' content and a file hosting as a repository for the versions and assets, and they did that almost immediately after starting. Alright, let's go back to this in a couple of days.
Solitude 0.0Y nevar evar
also, am i seeing ghosts here
ghost yui reporting in!
idk about any more recent community projects, but uboachan's project had some great potential, if anyone wants to dig through it. i don't remember too much, but if this was done again, nowadays, it'll probably go smoother.
Can you please link some production threads, or discussions related to those? I'm not having much luck googling it.
this board is where most if not all of the stuff we would still have about it. most discussion of it took place on IRC, but we definitely posted stuff here.
>>13541>which was canceled anyway because nobody but the devs and 20 other guys played it.
We should have this in mind, if we repeat the same forumula no one will want to play, I wouldn't want to play. It must be something different.
this is probably the more important of the threads back then. https://archive.uboachan.net/p/res/8.xhtml
Awkward situation when original assets look like those from RTP.
Except that you've provided absolutely no grounds for this comparison. And you have no idea how art works if you think art that "looks like other art" is some kind of malevolent act.
>>13554>if you think art that "looks like other art" is some kind of malevolent act
But I don't, what gives? I was just making an observation. Is it the sage? I just use it most of the time for no reason in particular, ignore it.
LOL now you're just making shit up that had nothing to do with what you said to begin with.
I'm not the same guy, but I think he meant these assets look like they're done in the same sort of dull way that rtp is. It looks like something you've seen a million times before. There's nothing malevolent about that though and it's just a personal opinion.
Uboachan is the worst community about Yume Niki in the whole internet, they dont even know about theories or secrets of the game they suck, Uboachan is not even a friendly place you get flame for anything there, it sucks, they are noobs in RPG maker too, half or their projects are half assed ripp offs like the Hell Diary clones by Mishka, and the administrators never help with anything, do they talk bad about uboachan I dont blame them, go insult your mother piece of disgusting pig shit, no sigo porque no se mucho ingles vete a la mierda, Uboachan es un asco y si a los usuarios de este foro no les gusta estan en su derecho idiota, y check my dubs.
We didn't "lose" Sei, he's just stepped down from his role as kingpin of the global drug mafia.
But nothing substantially new has been proposed so far.
Certainly, people just insist in going on with the same formulas that keep failing, anon wants a collab and proposed things we have seen before, we just tell them to try something different, but it's not like we're going to think any new ideas, personally I don't think it's worth it.
If something promising appears though, I'll jump into it and offer my creativity as others will also do.
>>13563>people just insist in going on with the same formulas that keep failing>we just tell them to try something different
How do you know it's the formula and not the execution thereof? And what do you mean by different in this case? Is it something about gameplay, something about atmosphere, something about art styles? You people act so dismissive all the time, yet you don't seem to have the slightest idea what is that that you want. "Something promising". Oh yeah, that sure explains a lot.
Okay I'm going to take you seriously now and stop memeing for a while.
>How do you know it's the formula and not the execution thereof?
Because the formula is always the same, only the developers are different, therefore the formula is the problem.
>And what do you mean by different in this case? Is it something about gameplay, something about atmosphere, something about art styles?
Good question, a mixture of everything, I think what makes YN different from games like YNDD, is precisely the atmosphere, and the creepy feel that isn't exactly horror, the beauty of exploration and mystery, keep those elements in a fangame and you can change everything else, there's a lot of room for invention here, still, somehow, people will keep doing the following, those are not bad things on their own but the combination of most(if not all) of these things make a very repetitive YNFG:>RPGM 2K3>MC is same size and art style as mado and most fangames>All pixel art is probably similar to YN and most fangames>MC walks slow as shit unless you find a speed effect>Trying to be "retro" so hard that you deny your game of having modern aesthetics>NPCs, look and act the same as YN and 99% of fangames>Tilesets all have dimensions and art styles similar to YN and most fangames
It is BORING to play the same all the time for so many years, if I wanted to play something like this…I'd go play the actual 2kki, or .flow, or Yume Nikki.
Notice that most of the things I said are repetitive aesthetics, but gameplay is also repetitive.
Can you imagine a fangame where you do something that is not:>Androg. MC in room>Can't leave>Goes to "dream" world through interacting with something in their room>Collects effects>Wakes up>Repeat until you reach the ending
Again, these are not bad things, just repetitive, and you can have some of them, just if you change one of these things you'd blow my mind.
A shitty stupid example to just show how easy is not to use these elements, you're a virus, and you infect people causing them to have strange hallucinations/dreams, your goal is to break them down psychologically so they can help you spread and get a different "dreamer", the "effects" you collect are ALL functional and allow you to get more freedom of movement through the dreams of specific people, you collect all of them and all the victims start a pandemic apocalypse.
I mean, just taking this hypotetical collab as a "western 2kki" is encouraging defeat. As in, everyone gives up because no one plays this.
>You people act so dismissive all the time
We give what we receive, have you read the posts? I'll get you some comments:>The only reason why it wouldn't work is if potential creators themselves refuse to cooperate.>nobody in this entire site knows how to move on.>Uboachan isn't really populated by creative types or people interested in that stuff, it's mostly critics.>nobody here actually likes the genre, and only comes here to get their attention fix and to act smug for no reason>And the so-called 'artists' are the biggest offenders of that.>what else do you expect me to do? Make a game on my own, and then pretend Ubuu had something to do with it?>I understand not wanting to draw, or make sprites, basically do anything that requires effort, but not even wanting to talk? How is that hard to do? "Oh no, someone's gonna dislike my idea, and then I'll be sad". Cmon, that's just childish>no one here has completed a game since 2014 except Noyemi
Let's clear someething up here, an anon came here wanting to make a collab, which is cool but not easy, and not something anyone would help with without some solid ground.
Instead of taking our advice seriously, to do something different from the pattern, they replied with tons of petty passives to guilt trip anons into providing the ideas and tools they don't have.
That is entitled and childish, we owe you guys nothing, that is why we keep telling you, give us something worth developing and I promise I will be the first one jumping in, I like success, and many other anons here do.
>yet you don't seem to have the slightest idea what is that that you want.
…and you go on, you guys need to stop the taunts and posts like "gee ubuu doesn't help because no one knows how2mak gam".
We have people who know a lot more than you and me ITT, I have completed a couple commercial games and I'm still a small fish in the tank that is Uboachan.
Alright fellas prepare for some serious autism.
I admittedly haven't read the whole thread because it devolved into a shitshow pretty quickly, but if anyone really wants to make a 2kki clone, (which I don't think is a good idea, but whatever) you'll need to undestand how and why 2kki had the success it did.
Both YN and RPGM are (probably) more popular in Japan. In YN's case, it doesn't matter much because the western fanbase is still what I'd consider "sizable", but the fact that RPGM is so uncommon outside Japan isn't doing any favor for a "western 2kki". I'm sure barely anyone in this thread have ever worked with it. (it's also much less user-friendly and easy to use than you'd expect) It's definitely something that's more well-known and accessible (due to popularity) in Japan. Of course, there's nothing we can really do about that.
What we can do though is come up with a good idea™. 2kki had a good idea because the barrier to entry is basically non existent. All you have to do is make a map and send it to them. There's no quality control so it doesn't even have to be good. This actually works in the project's favor. Sure, no one likes the bad maps, but the faggots submitting them keep some form of activity going until an actually good author comes along and makes something good. This also means that anyone out there with any idea for a YNFG or a YNFG map might just use 2kki as their creative outlet. Making an entire YNFG takes time and effort, and that's not something everyone can give. However, picking up RPGM and making just one map doesn't take much in terms of time and effort. Most would-be YNFG devs know or will realize that making an entire FG is just too much work. So then why not just submit your maps to 2kki so what little work you've done actually serves a purpose?
There aren't many ideas that are compatible with 2kki's development method. 2kki is both everything and nothing at all, as in everything that's in the game is effectively not a precedent for submitting whatever you want. If you start with a premise that's even slightly restrictive, you get fewer contributors. It's true that limitation breeds creativity but most contributors aren't there for the creative challenge, they're there just to make something and put it somewhere. Yume 2kki isn't meant to appeal to creative types, but to everyone, and that's what I believe to be why 2kki really got "big".
Let's take >>13497
's post as an example.
>They could leave their room. Explore the hallway or whatever.
That's too non traditional. Contributors will be worried they don't fit in the theme. And the few who will ignore it will just cheapen the gimmick and render it insignificant.
>It might be cool to have an LSD inspired corkboard that maps your progress and tells you how positive/negative the story is going. Pc's features and room change according.
Now that's a good idea; it requires almost no additional work from the contributor. You just have to say "make this map positive lol" and that's that. The "core devs", aka the guys who are actually putting effort in the project, then just have to program it in the game and there you go. Little things like this could help make the game more distinct from other FGs without making the submission process harder.
By the way, you'll need those core devs. Just one guy will do really, but it has to be someone who is sure to have the time and competence to program basic shit like the PC's room and game system, and then stick around making maps for the mid to long term. Once they leave they can pass the torch easily because at this point all there is to do is just add other people's submissions.
It's also very possible that a western 2kki is straight up impossible at this point without some major contextual change. YN's fanbase isn't nearly as active as it was because the game is no longer as relevant as it was. YN had a big impact on video games in general but its glory days are gone, and while I'm not that active in the community, I haven't noticed any kind of significant change despite the steam releases. If such a project would ever truly come to life, we shouldn't market it as a game from Uboachan, but as a game from the western fandom. I doubt ubuu is big enough to keep a project like that afloat. There's no "making peace with Tumblr", you just have to make it inclusive enough that everyone from all around the web could go for it. A chan imageboard is a good method of communication for such a project since people can stay anonymous, so hosting it on ubuu would probably be ideal, but that doesn't mean you have to ostracize newfags. Also, I can't take anyone talking about money in this thread seriously. If you think YNFGs are marketable you're even more naive than I am. Ideas based on trends are also bad: you're just dooming the game to failure once it's out of style.
Same guy, just wanted to share a few opinions.
I don't think a "western 2kki" is a good idea. YNFGs are just like video games in 1983: they're oversaturated with low effort garbage made to make a quick buck (or in the case of YNFGs, gain some easy attention) and there's only a few good titles that just about everyone knows about, like 2kki, .flow, LcdDem, etc. Sure there's a few good ones that no one's ever heard of like Kataribesou but no one cares to find out because of just how bad most of these are. "hey look at my fangame guys it's got a tsuki and a bedroom and everything yeah it's only got 2 maps but i'm gonna work on it i swear. what, my drawings suck? fuck you you big meanie i spend hours on that puddle of blood in mspaint". >>13531
said it well:
>Uboachan users have done a lot for the Yume Nikki community, I think we like the genre just enough, and not giving the YNFG Wiki another unfinished kusoge my friend, is an act of love.
Video games in '83 were well on their way to becoming a dead media, just a silly fad that everyone but the most tenacious nostalgiafag would've forgotten about, except it didn't because Nintendo had a good plan to revive the industry. They forced quality control and marketed their video game system as an "entertainment system" so that people wouldn't immediately dismiss them. Well we ain't got no Nintendo, but there's a lot of YN inspired games out there that aren't as derivative as the average RPGM FG and keep YN's legacy alive. YN itself was a hugely influential game because of its minimalist gameplay features and reliance on atmosphere to keep the player engaged. YN's influence has gone beyond YNFGs and is now well ingrained into popular culture. (what, you think all those mainstream atmospheric games just came out of nowhere?) YNFGs are now just a niche genre for people who just love the original formula that much or want to pay their respects to it.
That sounds terrible. You're right, it is a bad idea.
>>13491>1% of guys who will do 90% of the job
Core devs really have it rough, don't they? Shit, I've actually been guilty of just being an ideaguy and passing the actual work off on another person. I've ruined more than a few things because of my autism.
Just why are westerners like this? Why are we so lazy and expect someone else to just do it for us, and better yet why are there actually people who indulge that kind of behavior? Even our fangames have significantly less work put into them compared to Japan. And, sure, plenty of Japanese fangames suck, but there's plenty more that are actually good, probably more than we have, and probably more that are actually finished.
One word: Otaku. But the real meaning, not the meme.
Otaku means utter passion, losing yourself in your work, because you live it. It's not because you like it, it's not because you find it pleasant, it's not because it's a trend, it's because it's a core element in your life and you enjoy working on it instead of "making this cool fangame so everybody will suck my cokc and call me a dev xddd".
Most of Western people don't really understand this concept. For them, being otaku means liking anything that came from Japan. But that's just being a weeboo. That's also why most of the good artists on the internet are from orient. I'm not saying all of the art on this side of the planet is shit, nor that all the art from there is godly, but that's mainly the reason why you see such gorgeous art in blogs while in the west it's mostly kid who constantly copy each other and don't really progress.
We lack passion. We are not real otaku.
Wrong. Westerners aren't lazy and unwilling to put effort into things; Normal Westerners. In the J-pan I imagine everybody is imbued with a strong work-ethic no matter what due to societal training. Over here, society doesn't force it on you as hard. The westerners who are successful and well-adjusted are total workaholic drones, it's just that they put their effort into stuff immediately beneficial to themselves. A good private lawyer over here works just as hard as one in Japan. Same goes for engineers, doctors, ect. Meanwhile, the fringes of society, who would actually give a fuck about YN fangames, over here tend to not have that work-ethic. The fringes in Japan however, do. These are just generalizations, but overall this effect makes a big difference. That's my theory. Also, recognize your faults and work on them. Stop fucking up projects plz.
I think it's important to see the difference between wannabes and actual developers.
I don't really consider anyone a developer unless they get to finish one project, and not a short one, but fangames are rarely short.
Someone who has the dedication to finish a game isn't lazy, but there are so many wannabes that it's just easy to think devs are shit.
As someone who reads japanese forums occasionally, let me tell you - an average Japanese anon is just as much of a useless retard as the Western one (albeit more polite usually), and the fact that Y2 came to exist is just as much a stroke of luck to them.
If I recall correctly though, a number of people who worked on the game already had a name to themselves, and assumed a separate identity inside the production, treating it as a passion project. So I guess the "otaku" argument is not entirely wrong; I certainly have a hard time imagining a Western dev doing that.
I have a rather novel idea. How about we take a leaf out of GNUs book and make our work opensourced? Create a repository for maps and sprites and sound effects, that anyone can use or alter in any form so long as people are properly credited. People would have zero restrictions for creations, and any person or team could take their work and edit and amalgamate it in an way for them to make their own final product.
As for a way to differentiate the game a bit and break the mold some, I'd like to be able to explore the whole protaganists house while awake, though still not able to leave. During dreams you could access the different world's by entering different rooms of the house or exiting. Having a non-static nexus or house as in not all words can be accessed from the nexus every time you dream. It could be a simple rotation, done randomly, or if an lsd em "tracker" is put in place it could relate to that. Or possibly just the scenery of the house and outside changes.
I don't think a tracker should be done in a 1 dimensional happy/sad fashion, but it should be a 2 dimensional map more like.