/n/ - NEET

I was thinking about this a bit before. I was thinking that most people form their own perceptions of reality based on those around them. If the person next to them says something is true, than they believe it, and it goes down the line.

If someone were individualistic enough to break away from this groupthink, he would be free to form his own reality, and to see things his own way. Perhaps this is why prophets and wise men have historically been loners and recluses.

>>10862
Most people on this site are loners. Does that mean we are wise? Or is it our self consciousness that makes us different?

>>10863
It does not necessarily make us wise, but it may mean we are able to form our own realities as we see fit, free of external influence from greater humanity and their pre-existing ideas and visions.

>What if we are all just living in a sort of "consensus reality" which is entirely a product of the combined consciousness of mankind?
That is exactly how humans are living, actually. The only thing close to objectivity humans have is the scientific method, which mostly requires multiple humans to test a theory on the way the world works.If there is something that completely is unrecognizeable by humans, then to humans it doesn't exist, that is the human reality. There are variations in terms of human opinion, perception, ethics, etc. between humans as well.

>>10867
>free of external influence from greater humanity and their pre-existing ideas and visions.
This is a fale assumption, because even the decision to be free of external influence is influenced by the failure of external influence. It's like how nonconformity is just conforming to a different conformity. It is impossible to exist completely without any outside influence, even if you make your own reality and live in that reality, because the reality you make will be based on the things you've experienced, which requires external input.

At least that is my impression of it. I could be wrong.

I feel that we are all co-creating the world with our imaginations which manifests all the apparent changes in the physical world. I just, think, our potential is being squandered by toxic communities who promote self-limiting thoughts. Imageboards as a whole, generally speaking, are kind of like that. I wouldn't want anybody to spend more than a little bit of time using them to avoid getting sucked into their painful beliefs. /n/ is one of the better ones out there, for sure. I can't imagine making this kind of post anywhere else, for instance.

We all seem pretty stuck in our subjective realities. Zen philosophy and meditation, in essence, focus on dispelling the illusions created by our perception and getting closer to objective, "absolute" reality.

We can only process the information gathered by ourselfs and often adjust that with the feedback given from others.

Infact human perception is so flawed that a number of totally illusive states and beliefs can be induced without the use of drugs or even use of modern media technology, but it sure helps.

Call me crazy, but im convinced that this what we call reality isnt actually real.
Some things happen in such ways that i cannot simply assume things to be accidents and illusions.

>>10874
>Zen philosophy and meditation, in essence, focus on dispelling the illusions created by our perception and getting closer to objective, "absolute" reality.

Absolutely not. Zen focuses in eliminating all the external data the society or any other kind of media which transmits data gave us, creating fake impressions and as a result biasing the mind to think as that entity. The essence of Zen is to kill any input we received and to develop our perception instead of rational thought; it's, in fact, "killing the mind". What Zen is looking for is to perceive reality through illogical thoughts to kill the rational mind we have, and then achieve enlightenment (Or Satori). However, this Satori state is anything but the absolute reality/truth. In fact, there's an anecdote which says:

>Master, I want to achieve enlightenment to know the absolute truth.
>Why?
>To become a free man.
>Who is taking your freedom away?

Zen does not pursue the truth nor the reality. Zen searches for the enlightenment, and this enlightenment is nothing but the state of mind in which one is able to kill the mind. Which could be, ironically, another way to see the world which is different from the "world we all vaguely see the same way", but it's not an absolute truth.

>>10876
I have to admit I don't know a whole lot about Zen. Nevermind then. But I'm glad you called me out on it. Thanks, Anon.

>>10879

You would be surprised to know the number of people who talk about Zen without even knowing what it is about. Most of people agree it's the most "stable" or "useful" Buddhist branch after the Hinduism Buddhism or the Soka Gakkai school based on Nichiren, but they completely ignore that the Zen literally spits after hearing the word "Buddha" and that what it pursues is something which in the occidental point of view is eliminating oneself, killing the mind and perceiving the environment as much as possible.

So don't feel bad; most of people actually don't know what it is. If you're interested, I recommend you to search more about it; take what you need, and leave what you don't want to take. It's actually pretty useful to stabilize yourself and I personally love Tanka and Haiku poetry, which is usually mixed with Zen philosophy. I also like the Mono no Aware feeling some of those texts have.
If you're not interested, that's ok too. After all if something doesn't works for you shouldn't even waste your time on it.

>>10880
Zen is like someone hacking nihilism, turning nothing into everything, and finding meaning in it

pretty cool

I believe that there is no absolute truth (outside of mathematical ones and a few irrefutable statements) the truth is squishy and flexible and it can be argued different ways at different angles and has been for eons. Reality itself may be a lie, or possibly the truth, perhaps an illusion but if reality is an illusion then illusions are reality and then is that not what makes them real, or perhaps unreal? Illusions are real, or maybe not, reality is an illusion, or maybe not. But what does it matter? I enjoy reality and existence whether they are an illusion or not, but like truth they are flexible and squishy, if the world is not how I like it than I suppose I shall try to change it, bending it more to my liking.

If you don't like the world you can either not participate or you can try to change it.

I like the feeling of a piece of metal in my hand. It's cold and heavy and real. Even when I close my eyes I could feel its weight, I can feel it trying to pull itself back into the earth. I like the reality of that piece of metal whether it's real or not.

Why would you question reality all the time? I think the way our brain sees the world is amazing enough.
The way people think is funny.

>>10882

Mathematical truths are as constructed and relative as any other. Before humans there was no math, nor any concept of it. Ergo, it is an artificial way of ordering the world, as arbitraray and prone to collapsing as any other, if you simply adopt different rules.
In b4 'those are math as well', the fact that you can endlessly substitute rules doesn't make them absolute without artificial consensus from sentient beings.

>>10886
I know that. Truth and reason are construct of the logical mind that we evolved with. Although I still feel that saying "mathematics cannot exist without sentient beings" is kind of like saying "if a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it does not make a sound". My point is that 2+2=4 and no one's really going to argue that it's not, its not nearly so flexible and squishy and arguable as other things people might consider to be "truths".

Also does anyone even understand what I mean when I talk about holding a piece of iron in your hand and feeling the reality of it, dose no one else understand that feel?