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File: 1365262948766.jpg (93.9 KB, 1920x1080, yume-nikki-madotsuki-1920x….jpg)

 No.314

Okay, so I'm becoming downright fascinated with hikikomori. I myself am not a shut-in, though I am a part-time writer and working endlessly on projects has me locked in my small apartment frequently, where I get cabin fever. A story I wrote ended up using that as part of the theme (though the character was an old retired lady and not a young NEET).

After recently discovering Yume Nikki and being struck at how… droll and sad everything feels in those first moments in her apartment, and then looking up the hikikomori phenomena, I've been kinda inspired to go back to one of my older stories that I'm unhappy with and imbue it with some of these elements (it's about a sheltered "good Christian gal" who has an uncomfortable encounter and some dark memories from the past).

In looking stuff up, I learned about the book "Shutting Out the Sun" by Michael Zielenzinger:
http://amzn.to/10HFIZf

None of my local libraries or bookstores have it and I'm really considering buying it. When I saw the description I was like "I have to read this." But it's Amazon reviews seem split between "this guy hits it on the nose" and "this guy is bullshit." I can kind of tell the latter camp is unjustly accusing the author of agendas and what-not.

Either way, has anybody on this board read this book? What are your thoughts?

 No.315

It looks like a worthwhile read to me. The only concern I would have about this and other lines of thought on reclusionism…is that, well…some of the modern social and economic expectations we live under are insane. I'd like to know more about some of the middle ground people who still work, yet who refrain from marriage and withdraw from the social sphere. The ones less extreme than hikikomoris, but who show some of the same symptoms. And what are their reasons for withdrawing?

I'd like to think that there good reasons to be a recluse; unfortunately many hold the view of this as "bad slave, not participating correctly in the consumptive cycle." Reminds me of some footage back in the 1950s where they tried to pathologicalize women who did not want to create families.

 No.316

That's a good point, especially how in society now we're seeing less and less people pursue a traditional family (it's kind of becoming more pointless to have a spouse and multiple kids and a dog and a big house with a picket fence). Young people today to kind of grow up slower, I think, with the pursuit of college degrees and what-not.

Though in the end we are social creatures and interaction with others is important, so an extreme like hikikomori is something I wouldn't say is okay for somebody. But the fact that it's an epidemic of sorts does kind of draw attention to how our society's kind of fucked up. :\

 No.317

>>315
>d like to know more about some of the middle ground people who still work, yet who refrain from marriage and withdraw from the social sphere. The ones less extreme than hikikomoris, but who show some of the same symptoms.
>And what are their reasons for withdrawing?

I think I am there. The main reason I don't want to be a social piece of shit is because I'm sick of most of people. Stupid, gross people who can't think by their own, who can't see there are more problems than 'don't having the last-in-fashion car' or the ones that do things everybody do because 'Everybody's doing it!'
Rejection I had, reclusion I answered. I am not a hikiko, yet. But slowly I'm being dragging into the self-reclusion; to be appart from most of people. I even started to really hate being with people.

At first I was scared of this happening; but I am slowly agreeing it is ok, and that this is what I should do long time ago.
I still am 'attached' to the very odd friendship relations I somehow managed to have, and I am terrible scared of loosing them.

But I see it sadly is going to happen anyway, so whatever.

>I'd like to think that there good reasons to be a recluse


There is. If you don't want to be with people, don't be with people. Do you need more? There must be a 'more acceptable' reason? Bullshit from nowadays society.

 No.318

Well, I just impulse bought it.

I'm pretty interested in this sort of thing too, because I'm sort of in the middle-ground boat myself- just replace a job with college (and then hopefully after that I will be able to support myself). I also have social anxiety. [which used to hinder me from even checking out at the grocery store- mostly over that, I can buy my own groceries now anyway. Self checkouts in some stores are a lifesaver though. I also struggle with class discussions.]

Anyway, when it finally gets here, I'll read it and try to post my opinion, or a summary if desired.

 No.319

I used to be obsessed with hikikomori. I thought having little aspects of he lifestyle would be cool, like living in a tiny apartment by myself, but then I slowly became one.

 No.320

File: 1365422299153.jpg (308.64 KB, 1037x767, 1351808634446.jpg)

>>317
> If you don't want to be with people, don't be with people. Do you need more? There must be a 'more acceptable' reason?

Though I have my occasional tendencies (mainly I can't stand talking to intellectually bankrupt people), I would discourage anyone from cutting off *all* contact. 'Cause like I said, we are a social species. Human interaction is kind of vital to our well-being. People can say "if you're happy being locked up, what's the problem?" but I would hardly say that anybody who has cut off all communication with others is really happy.

>>318
Cool! I'm gonna check out a couple bookstores today just for kicks. Also found a library like fifty miles away that has it, but I'm not enthusiastic about the pressure of an inter-library loan, so I'll probably be saying "fuggit" and ordering it off Amazon anyway.

Can't wait to hear your thoughts, though!

 No.321

so deep

 No.322

>>315
>yet who refrain from marriage and withdraw from the social sphere.
Marriage as in the institution of marriage or marriage as in "living as a normal family"? The first one is pretty easy to guess, but the second one, I truly believe the world is getting worse everyday and if by any impossible chance I'd find someone to create progeny with, I'd prefer not to, to avoid possible suffering, like lack of water or world.

>And what are their reasons for withdrawing?

I've only met one interesting person in person. My old friends and most folks just bore me.

>>317
>I still am 'attached' to the very odd friendship relations I somehow managed to have, and I am terrible scared of loosing them.
I remember when I saw my friends parting away from me. It was a simple decision from their part, choosing a religion, but that maid the lay out of their life pretty easy to perceive and know that I had lost them. Even though they're not in that religion anymore we never were the same thing again, and I die of boredom every time I meet them.

Sorry for the off-topic but, Chesir, what's so good about Horo? Is it the personality or something else?

 No.323

File: 1365471993792.png (58.75 KB, 563x331, horo1.png)

>>322

Why people can't understand our love??

It's a mix that makes muh perfect waifu.

Yes, that personality, that attitude, the fragility she express, the way she manages men; I can't really say what's exactly what draws me so bad to her.

It simply happens. She is, somehow, the kind of person that attracts me (which is hard as fuck); not in a sexual way, but in a way that makes you say 'If I ever manage to get someone like this, I would consider myself more than lucky and commit suicide because I wouldn't be able to stand happiness'.
She's just… simply… the only kind of the opposite sex partner I find interesting.

And of course do note I am not a 3d pig disgusting shit so it had to be 2D and there is that dimensional barrier. Sadly. Sadly.

 No.324

>>Today I went to the doctor for the beginning of my psych evaluation, and under "Occupation", I put NEET

 No.325

>>323
>Yes, that personality, that attitude…

I see. I never saw anything of her, so I just felt like I could ask you. And that unfortunate silly barrier, indeed. But understanding your love isn't hard, what was hard was that I never met your wife!

 No.326

Mmmmm…

I am also an artist of a similar trade, and I support you in your pursuits.

Personally I dont find this book to be promising, because he seems to be looking at societal issues in japan objectively. And frankly, I think that's the wrong way to go. I'd rather have many different books with vibrant perspectives, rather than a single writer tackling different problems. Welcome to the NHK is a great book from the hikkimori perspective, but if your sincere about knowing this lifestyle, I would recommend trying it for 3-6 months, but of course that's not possible for everyone (only to those truly devout to their art[just kidding I'm not an ass.])

 No.327


 No.328

>>323
Remember that you're 3DPD too.

 No.329

Of course the author has an agenda and the description at amazon isn't exactly the epitome of neutrality: 'Japan sucks because samurai' - the guy who wrote the description. Then again, in this kind of books the author usually points to 'raw information', the studies he has read. While he might draw conclusions ranging from dumb to wise, one can always just read the facts and skip all else. You'd have a lot to skip anyway because Zielenzinger is American. They write horribly long books.

 No.330

File: 1365883809476.jpg (29.1 KB, 260x402, 9781849705059_p0_v1_s260x4….JPG)

What do you guys think of this book?

 No.331

>>318 here, I just got the book yesterday. Gonna try to power through it- do you guys want some kind of summary (besides my opinion on if it's worth the buy) when I finish?

 No.332

>>327
The whole book can be downloaded from somewhere.

 No.333

File: 1365915883479.jpg (560.13 KB, 804x790, reading.jpg)

Well, I said "fuggit" and did an inter-library loan, haha. I got, like, at least three library memberships and found one that would do it for free, and would provide a decent amount of time to borrow it. So soon I shall be reading it.

>>326
Oh, well no, don't misunderstand me. I have no intention or interest in *pursuing* the lifestyle of a hikikomori. I'm just utterly fascinated by the phenomena. No, no. Though when I shut myself away to work on writing and freelance work, I sometimes feel like a hermit, I never let that drag on. I have friends. I go out. I fool around. I carouse and drink. I very much am a connoisseur of life's experiences. It's why I like writing. To illuminate the different dusty corners of life. That is why people on the edges of normal social structure fascinate me.

>>329
Well to his credit, at least, he has a long career with Asia (Korea and Japan chiefly), so he's not completely ignorant. A grain of salt will for sure be taken, though.

>>331
Sure, I'd love to hear your thoughts. At this point I will be reading it soon anyway, but I'd love to have some discussion about it regardless.

>>332
Fuck that, I'd rather curl up in my chair and read it. I don't do that Kindle buwellsheet and I stare at a computer enough as it is already, haha.

 No.334

>>333
Yeah I know that feel. I'd often rather just not read a book if I have to do it online. manga is a different story though.

 No.335

File: 1366436103993.gif (467.71 KB, 170x197, tumblr_md5lymAm4Z1qzxkzb.gif)

Well, I checked my holds at one of my local libraries and it's in! Probably gonna go pick it up sometime this weekend and will probably jump right in to reading it. In the past couple of days I hit on a hikikomori-inspired story idea that finally stuck, so this shall be my research/inspiration. I shall report back.

>>331
How's it coming along with you?

 No.364

File: 1370078391982.jpg (28.58 KB, 400x334, VaCLASKpK0WDhHwBem31HQ2.jpg)

OP back. I just finished "Shutting Out the Sun" today, right before I had to return it. It was honestly a little bit of a chore to read, as it focused on the economic causes of hikikomori and went really deep into Japan's political history. I was kind of hoping to delve into the psychology of it all to inspire my story, but nevertheless it was really interesting. And it makes one take a look at the self-proclaimed shut-ins and NEETs in America, who don't actually share the same traits of hikikomori and are in fact quite different. Certainly we aren't that much better off than Japan, and America and the rest of the modern world have a problem of losing a sense of community. That's kind of what I'm gonna be digging into the next couple months as I plan my story.

Either way, interesting read with unexpected focus. Anyone else actually read it?



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