I feel like you're using your game's 'meta' status to advert criticism. Sure checkered floor tiles are common, but don't you want to do better than the norm? Personally I'm not bothered by it, but the way you justify it seems to be enabling mediocrity.
Dude, I just like checkered floor tiles. It's a minor thing I enjoy and unlike things like large looping maps or hell mazes, it doesn't hurt anyone. No one cares about floor tiles in a game that much beyond color.
Real talk, you're too stuck in a single unimportant detail rather than staring at the whole picture whatsoever.
Furthermore if you had put some thought to it, you'd realize two things:
1- Checkerboard floors have appeared in the "real life" room of the head you are visiting (whose screenshots can be found further up the thread), giving it credibility to the reocurring pattern, similar to the paracas textiles in yn which come from Mado's rug, y2k's references to the twin mountainset found outside Uro's veranda and so on.
2-the whole area is a reference to Remedios Varo's paintings to some extent, which along the reocurring themes one can find that show up in the area (warm tones, nighttime, elongated faces) are, unsurprisingly, checkerboard floors.
3- I just like checkerboard floors and nothing will change my mind about it.
Who cares about floor tiles that much?
>and unlike things like large looping maps or hell mazes, it doesn't hurt anyone
"My lazy design choices are so much better than those other lazy design choices!"
Can one possibly have less self-awareness than this? What do I know though, I'm just an emotional response. Better post another smug face so as to look superior.
You're the one gettin' mad at floor tiles here bud, not me.
It's not interesting, but it bothered you enough to make you all passive aggressive about it for two whole posts.
There's a reason I brushed off your critique and it's called "Nobody cares about floors that much unless they do something or clash with the setting or they are too detailed/busy in the eyes".
Furthermore you presented something that is nitpicking/personal taste at worst and tried to pass it as an objective design flaw - ignoring the reasons presented for the design in first place.
To add, you went "you're using your game's meta image to dodge critique" when this doesn't even apply to the situation in question. The other games example was to show reocurring imagery that is manifested through small things found in the games' real life sections (Rug, Background Scenery)
And last but certainly not least, you're the one assuming that you, the one who are just doing basic nitpicks, is a self-important critic. You're just trying to nitpick something and gettin' all huffy all because I had the choice not to give a shit. And I'll bet you'll go fearmongering like "ooh you won't improve if you listen to me" but the bigger picture is that people don't care about floors that much.
Read the fucking post
Oh man, I thought I'd just move on, but if people like you are gonna whiteknight for our artist friend, I guess I'll make myself extra clear.> not make any objective points in his speech (besides "but it looks boring and baaad!")
No, dude, that's not what I've said at all. I've said that the art is lazy, or low-effort. And something being low-effort is not a subjective metric, it's actually pretty easy to measure how much work and how much thought has gone into producing something.
I admit it's rude and petty of me to give feedback in this way, but hey, it's not like everyone is obligated to be part of our artist friend's fan club, is it? Since no one else brought it up so far, I thought I might as well. Mr. Artist doesn't seem to care either way; his work is clearly perfect in his head, and everyone who disagress is just emotionally defective after all.>>13789>Furthermore if you had put some thought to it, you'd realize
Well, that's a cool rebuttal, except for the following:
1. This logic only works if the detail in question is something specific, something that stands out on its own. Like the examples you've mentioned, the mountains in 2kki and the textiles in Nikki. But checkerboards are by their very definition generic, and if you try to use them as a recurring detail, it just doesn't have the same effect. It's like if you said "the hero has some generic rock outside his house, so the dream world is full of generic rocks". It might be the case, but it's still not gonna be read that way by the audience, cause the detail you're using just doesn't stand out.
2. So what you're saying is that lazy and mediocre designs are cool as long as some other artist did it before? All the while there's not even any logical relation between your game and that woman's work? Man, you must be a really creative person.
3. Hey, good for you, totally beside the point though.
Oh boy, look at all this text you're not even gonna read! Can I get another smug face response, please?
This isn't Tumblr, it'd be cool to stop making such a big deal of something so silly.
Well, Yume Nikki is objectively low-effort, you can say that. At least I've heard people saying that. What a dumb thing to say, isn't it? And even is it is low effort, does that means it's bad and thoughtless? No. How can you say that something is "low effort" to begin with? Do you know how much effort other person put into something? Look at the logos for example: is Nike's logo looks complicated to you? It isn't, isn't it? Yet every designer thinks deep into the logos and symbols to make sure that it sticks with audience. But you can say that logos are "low effort" because of how simple they are. That's is you indicate how low effort things are judging by how complicated they look.
Also you've accused author of being boring and not trying to design properly to which he clearly replied with his thoughts about why he made floor this way. So he clearly did this intentionally. That's if your understanding of "low effort" is something that haven't got any thoughts behind it.
Trust me, I'm not defending the author and I'm not saying that his designs are perfect (nobody's perfect I bet if you tried to put your thoughts in constructive manner at least everything would've be better), I'm just explaining his reaction and what did he meant by >presented something that is nitpicking/personal taste at worst and tried to pass it as an objective design flaw.
Please, think about your mindset, I'm just triggered by the people like you, as an designer/artist myself.
Please, don't critique anyone if you don't know how to do that properly or just want to be rude or say how do you hate said artist's vision.
>>13805>And even is it is low effort, does that means it's bad and thoughtless?
I consider thought part of the effort involved, so anything low-effort would also be thoughtless by definition. Or I wouldn't call it low-effort. Like for example, Yume Nikki's art may be simplistic, or low-effort from a technical standpoint, but it does have some sort of overaching thought to it (otherwise why would people go to such length in making up theories), as such it hardly counts as low-effort.>How can you say that something is "low effort" to begin with?
The same way one can say whether a piece of music is harmonious or not, the same way one can say whether a color combination is pleasing to the eye or not. It's mostly feeling based, but there actually is a rigorous math underneath it all; if one is so inclined, it's very possible to measure artistic harmony.> Look at the logos for example: is Nike's logo looks complicated to you? It isn't, isn't it? Yet every designer thinks deep into the logos and symbols to make sure that it sticks with audience. But you can say that logos are "low effort" because of how simple they are
On top of what I've said about thought being part of the effort, your comparison is scarcely valid, as a logo is an entirely different art form. That's like comparing a haiku to a full-fledged novel; even if they use the same language, their structures will still be fundamentally different.>Also you've accused author of being boring and not trying to design properly to which he clearly replied with his thoughts about why he made floor this way
Boring is a subjective category, and it's not even the real problem in question. It seems that the author just doesn't have any original ideas to his work. That's why the whole "meta-commentary" is a thing, it's not stealing other people's styles if you do commentary on it, right? Fair Use, yo.
Also, as you might see, I've went back and deconstructed that reasoning, because it doesn't sound very logical.> I'm just explaining his reaction and what did he meant by >presented something that is nitpicking/personal taste at worst and tried to pass it as an objective design flaw.
I've made my case for why it is, in fact, a flaw. Dismissing everything is easy, what matters is whether there is some logic to back it up.>Please, think about your mindset, I'm just triggered by the people like you, as an designer/artist myself.
Well, that makes it two of us, or three with OP. And guess what – I'm triggered by people like him, who leech off other people's creativity while pretending to be some kind of certified expert about it.
Even if somebody complained about the dumbest, most minute detail, that's not a good reason to get all pissy, or 'triggered' vomit
about it. Low or high effort is very arbitrary, but what's not is that simply making those sorts of tiles isn't very difficult for an average person. You could also say it looks boring. Subjectivist reasoning is moronic because it implies that something like Policenauts looks no better than Undertale. Flat, checkered patterns aren't creative and they don't give much to feast your eyes on. Low or high effort, YN always gave something interesting and distinct to see. I'm noticing from a lot of screenshots that a flat checkered floor or some other plain grid is used often.
Honestly I'm pretty certain this is just trolling. M has put checkered tiles into all her other games and no one's said anything until now. It might not be something I really care, but she does and she's perfectly allowed to put them in because she likes them, and she's actually the one making this game and putting in work into the rest of it, and it's not so offensive that it automatically makes this the worst thing in the history of uboachan or mankind in general. It's just a designer thing, like lol puts in edgy loli girls, rust, and viscera into his games and wataru makes beautiful garden post-apocalyptic garden areas you can't see shit in. Besides that, the game itself is looking pretty good all in all, even better than Me (which, by the way, is also filled with tile patterns, blood, and eyes that I don't see many people complaining about.)
I hope M doesn't pull a Mishka on us and fuck off forever, which is probably what this guy's wanting. One could even say that it might just be the same person, because ubuu is easy as hell to screw with because of the massive circlejerking. Don't be a slut M, please.
Goddamnit I posted the same image twice! Oh well.
So did Toby Fox rip you off in his new game or what? Because that guy looks a lot like the wizard character in deltarune.
Yeah, I know. I just found the comparison itself hilarious.
Have some eggs. Development has slowed down quite a bit, but I believe by tuesday I'll have some stuff to show.
i think i found something. like i've cracked some sort of code here.
Of course! Jubei was pulling the strings the whole time! It all makes sense now…
Awesome enemy dude. Although I feel like it'd look better animated, however I'm not sure if that's a possibility.
You may want to consider, maybe not a different pose, but perhaps giving it a little more definition in some areas. Silhouettes are hard to do because of how simple and plain they can be. You may want some pop of color on it's lower body to make it stand out a bit. If this is a common enemy, I hope you make different color variations of it.
I do like the way the butterfly head is drawn and the overall 'Gekidan Inu Curry' feel to it. It reminds me a little of Umineko too actually. Have you considered naming it Beatrice?
I'll keep it in mind as I make more edits to compensate its lack of animation.
The idea behind the butterfly maiden(s) is to invoke the works of Romero Britto.
That aside, currently I ponder if only bosses should be animated. Right now a few enemies are actually animated such as the Anjas, the 3d NPCS and whatnot.
Hey, I know that!
Although, now I'm concerned there might be too little color if you're going for him. Perhaps putting a pattern on the dress may help? If you feel ambitious, you may want to make multiple pattern variations, in addition to color variations.
The other enemies and bosses look great. I guess if you wanted to animate them, perhaps consider making Anjas a special type of enemy akin to Off's Secretaries, Dragon Quests rare slimes, or other rare/secret bosses disguised as regular mooks. Just something to give them a special or unnatural quality.
That makes sense! I will do that to the Anjas, don't worry. They will be minibosses.
On the area side, I am currently working on a particular area that leads to an effect.
That's a pretty cool looking character.
The large, looming "not-cousin itt" or the smaller but large ghost?
The background one. I loved those kinda charas in Hallucigenia, and I wish more fangames used them.
You'll be happy to find out there is more of them.
For now, have this.
you should switch-blade your fingers off to ensure you can never curse the world with another shitty pixel art ever again
there's a point in development where you're in it for the long term. after that point it'd be easier just to start over from scratch. i don't know how far into development you are, but from your screenshots, it looks fairly significant. you might still be ok, but if you'll have to redo a large enough amount of areas, it's better to just scrap what you got and start again, or plow on through.
the different styles between areas have always concerned me. stylistically, some things just don't belong, and i was worried it'd eventually take it's toll on the project. in regards to the battles, you're pitting chibi final fantasy sprites against works of art. middens and off did similar, but kept a similar palette throughout to make differences less jarring. i don't know if that's the problem you're talking about however, but that's what I'm worried about. what do YOU think is wrong with the battle system? if you uploaded a picture of it, it might be easier to tell what's gone wrong and how to fix it. also keep in mind, you can position the characters and enemies sprites anywhere on the field. you don't have to just line them up on one side.
i really don't mean to sound overly critical. I'm a bit of a pessimist. still, what you have shown us so far is great, and I'm looking forward to more of it. i do have high hopes for the game, even if it doesn't sound like it. you are an amazing artist.
my complaint about the bedroom is that it's a bit flat. perhaps add more colorful decorations to it to make it feel more 'lived in', such as pillows or a carpet, or books, clothes, or a lamp.
Forgot to add about battle systems, it might also be easier to do what games like earthbound had and do a first person dungeon crawler system.
Hello once more. My issue with the battle system isn't its style (because after all it becomes interchangeable) but its implementation - How to for example make it so it's not too intrusive for the people who want to explore but not too much "just tacked on and easily ignorable" which is a delicate balance with a game of such a nature. As for the picture shown in my previous post, it was just there as an example of how my pixel art would look like (veterans however, might realize that this is a mockup of one of my earlier games
Gif and picture here is how the battle system is like in its current state.
plz keep making your game, it looks rad
wew lad, sick yume nikki reference!