/fg/ - Fangames

>I know this is the fan game section so I'm probably talking to a lot of people who disagree with me
Actually not, the general opinion from people who originally played YN some time ago is that the repetitive gameplay all the fangames mimic is just sickening, and I include myself in that opinion.
That's why alternative games (gameplay-wise) are received way more positively than the same stuff we've been seeing for years and years to no end. Goddamnit, I remember when we only had around 20 fangames; last time I checked they were around 150 or so, and they're all the same shit.

I also agree with you in that most of the fangames miss what made YN so great, and just copy elements that were already present in the original game and mix them with some originality of their own. This by no means dismisses all the hard work put onto these games by their respective developers. There are some pretty cool things out there, but we've been seeing the same thing for so long that when another fangame with the same elements appears, no matter how much effort made by the dev, I can't help but think "Oh, c'mon, not this shit again".

Also, the YN fangame world has been dead for some time now, because the new trend is to make horror games that mimic The Witch's House, and repeating all these shitty memes ad nauseam. Oh, the irony.

The only fangame i really played, not even trough all the way, is "me" so my opinion here may be insignificant.

Tough i must say quite enjoyed it, it has a good theme and it generally fits well and is intriguing.
Even tough i cant refute your point directly i think with the example given i can say fangames can be innovative, exciting and worthwhile.
In those cases its great and since most of them are free there is no reason to complain.

I think its false to say they are all the same shit, true they follow the same formula, but thats hardly an issue, its like saying all fps games are doom clones or so.
Some games surely introduced some interesting mechanics and yn hardly can be considered the perfect itteration, so im sure the genre as a whole evolved with fangames.

I am a gamedev myself, not fangames tough and i am somewhat disapointed people still use rpg maker.
With this many great engines around people really should raise the bar higher.
The concept of puzzle/exploration games in 3d environemnts hasnt been exploited well, i see much potential there.

Most fangames are crap OP, and there is a reason, every little shit teen on the internet made one.

Absurd mass production, why does Yume Nikki have so many fangames? Why are they so awful?

I think it resides on the engine, look, Touhou got tons of fangames, but most of them are okay, they vary a lot too, in quality, design etc.

The easy access of people to RPG maker made the task of making a fangame almost a meme.

I think a fangame is something you must do when you really love someone else's work that much, because you will giving a lot of your time and art on it's name.
That's the truth, YN fangames are a meme now.

I think the reason why .flow and 2kki are the most popular fangames is they're the same gameplay but altered slightly. They both bring their own feel to the game. 2kki isn't nearly as surreal in a way, its more just dreams I guess, but ithas weird and creepy areas. But the gameplay feels different because of how big it is i guess? But .flow really feels different. It's actually horror and I feel instead of walking around big areas it has a lot more door/screens/areas to explore that aren't just large masses. 2kki does also to some extent. I don't think I've ever tried any of the other fangames but tbh YN is hard to play anymore. Trying to replay it feels kinda boring since I've seen it all and there's no actual gameplay besides seeing things. Maybe in a few years I'll replay it but I just don't think I can anytime soon.

I honestly like 2kki better than YN, even if I haven't finished it. I think the dream setting works a lot better with a ton of different ideas from people. It makes it feel not as connected or continual. It feels like a dream much more in that way.

>>11280
OP here.

I agree about some of the annoyances of the original Yume Nikki. Let's not glorify it as a game. Lots of empty, giant rooms and slow waking speed make for a pretty bad game experience until you accidentally find the bike or use a walkthrough. (And there is another big then that remains unclear in a blind playthrough: how to go about solving the puzzles, if there are any. I wish Kikiyama would've put something in the "instructions" effect that would tell you there are basically none in the game.)

I also agree with the other point - there's not really enough areas in the game to constitute it being like a real dream. You would almost think its more like Madotsuki going into a fantasy world in day-dream fashion than actually falling asleep. Besides the random chances around particular hidden events in the game, there isn't much randomness either, like the kind you see in LSD: Dream Emulator. (Although that game gets limited in that by other ways.)

Initially, Yume Nikki came off as a boring and level-design wise, poorly designed. It was only after seeing a lot of the areas and events, and knowing the ending wasn't out of place that I begun to appreciate the game. In a way, you don't know how pretentious a game like YN is until you know the ending. Luckily, it avoids coming off as pretentious and seems deep and meaningful instead. The game was a metaphorical hell-prison, and it would seem the message is to "never return." And of course, in regular game and sequel style, you return in the fan-games, lessening that deep point.

I think the fan games need to go far outside the bounds of the original to become valuable in the same way, and I don't know how it would be done, but maybe someone with a creative enough mind does.

>>11281
>Initially, Yume Nikki came off as a boring and level-design wise, poorly designed. It was only after seeing a lot of the areas and events, and knowing the ending wasn't out of place that I begun to appreciate the game
The game was the first of its kind and it came out when, 2003 i think?
Also it was made by one guy i think and for free, you can cut it some slack in that regard.
Keep in mind too 2003 was a very different year for indie games than it is now.

Again i agree, but just to remember that gamedesign was much less demanding and evolved back then so people need to keep this in mind.

>>11282
I do keep all of that in mind. For one, I realize that YN is a very different game from most games at that time. Its difference increases its value, in my opinion. That may have also allowed it to convey deeper emotional ideas, since it breaks the fourth wall by being so outside of regular game and artistic design, and despite its simplicity as well.

Being a weird and thematically similar game to YN just wouldn't cut it again. Its not different enough to have the same impact as YN.

I've played a bit of Yume 2kki, and while I think some of the areas, art styles and music are really cool, it doesn't have an underlying theme set of themes, possibly because its been put together by multiple people who have a different idea of what the game is. While I'm sure a lot of people here appreciate its design, everyone knows that its probably only a tenth of the size of Yume Nikki in interest and uniqueness, despite there being many more levels in 2kki.

While it seems that Yume Nikki may have been under-explored creatively by the developer, continuing off that exploration in another game just doesn't work. One obvious reason for that is that it's a different group of people working on it. Its no longer the artistic expression of a single story, but just genuine wacky randomness and insanity. I could see the appeal of that too, but its the result of missing elements.

>>11280
> 2kki isn't nearly as surreal in a way,

imo it's even more surreal. im amazed at how creative it is at times.

>>11287
2kki is a huge hit-or-miss. Some areas in 2kki really do feel like exploring a surreal dream, especially Wataru's maps. Others just feel like a bad copypaste from YN.

I think most would agree with you OP. No fangame could ever touch the pure originality and creativity of YN. That said, fangames can still be worthwhile, even if they don't reach such heights. Only .flow comes close, although less in an artsy fartsy way and more in just a fun experience way. Other fangames, though, are more about just feeding the desire for more that YN left me with. Exploring these games, while not as full of meaning and pure craftsmanship, are fun and at least give me a taste of the feeling that YN gave me. 2kki is always full of surprises. LcdDem, Yume Nisshi, Yume Graffiti all had their own feelings and own stories that were told through a Yume Nikki lens. Ultra Violet, Me, Miserere were fun to explore. Hell Diary, The Other Line, Kataribesou added gameplay twists…

Basically, you're right. YN is my favorite game after all. But I don't think that stops fangames from being worthwhile and fun experiences in their own right. They don't have to meet or surpass the best game ever to achieve that