[ yn / yndd / fg / yume ] [ o / lit / media / og / ig / 2 ] [ ot / hikki / cc / x / sugg ] [ news / rules / faq / recent / annex / manage ] [ discord / scans / mud / minecraft ] [ aurorachan / desuchan / sushigirl / lewd ]

/2/ - 日本 ~redux~

cirno day edition
Name
Email
Subject
Comment
File
:
Password (For file deletion.)

We are about to have an influx of refugees from the shuttered 8chan, and this is probably inevitable.
However, this is not 8chan, and it's definitely not 4chon.
Participation is welcome, but a sudden sharp increase of alt-right material and garbage posts will not be tolerated.
Please leave your hitlers, seisatsu.pngs, burning crosses, and shitpost floods at the door.
Even on /ot/, we expect some level of quality in our posts. Please familiarize yourselves with our rules and guidelines, and make sure to lurk before posting.
Also, apologies for deleting the /4chon/ refugee thread outright, I overreacted. There's nothing wrong with such a thread as long as it doesn't cause me too much of a headache.
Enjoy your stay and don't be a dick.
-Seisatsu

File: 1545461603613.jpg (112.77 KB, 677x960, __real_life_and_etc_drawn_….jpg)

 No.1045

Recently I've started to actually learn Japanese and contemplate moving there once I mastered the language, already had knowledge in an area of specialty, and professional experience so that I could actually be a useful member of society there. It's clean, the trains are quiet and on time, there no, "urban youths", to tolerate if you catch my drift. I'm starting uni next fall, so that's a long ways off. This is sort of like a cross-roads in my life where any kind of future seems like a realistic possibility. However, as I did more research I became painfully aware of the elephant in the room: foreigners are not accepted and have no defined role in Japanese society. Let me preface this by stating 2 things. 1.This post is not intended to be political. 2.I'm not one of those morons who think Japan should be shamed into adopting Europe's retarded approach to letting in outsiders.

Before this point, I thought problems people who went there had could mostly be attributed to their lack of understanding the social etiquette. Of course some loud idiot would stand out and be rejected. I figured a person who did the work involved to fully understand the language and the ins and outs of social interaction would be just fine, but that't not what I found. There's a lot to unravel, so i'll start with the biggest thing that struck me, housing discrimination. The way I see it, I don't care how hard it is to get in. I don't care if they don't let anybody in at all. They could make people pass Kanken 1, however, doesn't a person who does get in, who does meet the requirements, deserve the ability to get something as basic as housing? Shouldn't something as essential as that be guaranteed? If they just want some South Korean temp laborers, fine, but what I see is a sort of half-assed acceptance. Would other countries really be so pissed if they didn't let in anybody? Is it just to appease the, "international community"? There's probably similar stuff involving health care or other such things, but I don't know much about that and you get the idea.

From what I've read, the way you're perceived as a foreigner is very binary. Either people will be hostile towards you, or more likely they'll treat you like some kind of attraction. There's no third option. Doesn't matter how long you've been there, or how well-adjusted you try to be, there's no third option(recognition). I suppose physical attraction plays a role in which of the two categories you get placed in(ugly idiot, exotic beauty). It seems contradictory that a society so focused on social intricacies, doesn't seem to understand this. Does the concept of condescension exist there? People make the argument that being doted on and given attention is a nice thing, but when I see people say that I think about the people who actually try to live there. I started thinking that this might less of an issue in non-urban places, as naturally a tourist is less likely to go to the countryside, so a foreigner there is probably a permanent resident, right? Except I also imagine you would get more of a negative reaction in less populated places. They're less used to bologna skins and don't feel the same societal obligation to, "make a good impression". If i'm wrong about that, please tell me.

 No.1046

In the states, I think even some of the staunchest conservatives would have respect for an Asian person with high professional credentials and perfect English. Even if they wouldn't admit it, they wouldn't lump them with the same sorts that work in sweatshops or run the laundry mat. In Japan it seems impossible to make any kind of contribution that would get you positive recognition. I don't mean like a, "celebrity", or, "tv person", either. I wouldn't mind having to wear a badge if it meant people could see it and think, "this guy isn't clueless", or maybe even, "this is a person I'm glad is here". That just seems like a pipe dream from I've read though. There's doesn't seem to be any pathway to that.

I started thinking this might just be a noramlfag thing over there since it's so contradictory to nip stuff taking so much inspiration from western culture, so maybe the outsiders and oddballs in Japanese society perceive things differently? I'd like to think the majority of people anywhere are dumb and the outliers aren't. Then I realized an oddball there might only not be inclined to hide their prejudice. I consulted 2ch and that showed i'm right at least in some cases. I saw one post where some guy pointed out how most of the people who use the site are neets, so their perception is already outside of the norm.
https://gimpo.5ch.net/test/read.cgi/lifesaloon/1178721525/
http://rio2016.5ch.net/test/read.cgi/lifesaloon/1415340660/l50
http://wc2014.5ch.net/test/read.cgi/lifesaloon/1321722176/

Anyway, it just sort of leaves a sour taste in my mouth. When I look at an anime or visual novels now, I just think, what would the people who made this think of me? This revelation plays into insecurities I already have. After a month or so I'll probably just get over it, but it stings a bit, y'know? I didn't anticipate the intensity of it all. Things in the future might change, but I don't know if it'll for the better. I definitely don't want to see people over there getting run over by guys with turbans or hordes of liberal mobsters demanding sexy woman and loli be banned. It's a complicated feeling. If any Japanese people frequent ubuu, I'd like to know their opinion on all this.

 No.1047

>>1046
Oh yeah, also, the older posts on 2chan actually seem more reasonable. That's a ten year difference, so it doesn't exactly bode well.

 No.1048

File: 1545495240134.jpg (149.97 KB, 850x967, __bb_and_bb_fate_grand_ord….jpg)

Here's something I just found.
>Manga is wasted on foreigners. Those outside Japan should stick to reading manhwa!”
>Thanks to that we got worked over. Seriously, die you filthy foreign scum.”
>“Read your own country’s comics, bastards.
>Do you understand this you dirty foreign scum?
https://www.neogaf.com/threads/japanese-2ch-users-over-onemanga-closing-down-serves-you-right-foreign-scum.402462/

 No.1049

File: 1545500425920.jpg (51.96 KB, 700x393, a49ZN1M7_700w_0.jpg)

>>1046
Most of the replies in those threads are justified, to a point. People going to japan but not learning Japanese, not understanding basic etiquette, pretending the country should accommodate for them and not the other way, etc. is just annoying for locals. And it's not something limited to Japan, the same could be said of virtually any other country. I mean, it's not like all americans are happy with the mexican problem, are they? Same in Europe with Syria refugees.

Have you tried opening a thread yourself?

>>1048
They make solid points here too, if you ignore the obvious bait and hate. Japan doesn't want to export manga because of censorships, costs, etc. And here in the west, reading manga is just as easy and taking a dump. But it is a market, and as such it needs demands, which in turn gets killed if you can easily obtain the product for free.
Of course that it being ridiculously expensive on this side of the sea doesn't make things better, but those are solid arguments.

 No.1050

File: 1545503091469.png (559.83 KB, 707x1000, __original_drawn_by_bariki….png)

>>1049
I already addressed that in my post, did you read the whole thing? It doesn't matter if you know the language and how to behave, you are still a forever outisder, and not even a more respected one as there is only one large lump of outsiders. They don't see any distinction between them, and little of what you just said is mentioned in any thread. It's just conjecture on your part, but I guess I don't really know either. You'll also have a harder time finding a place to live, yada yada, I already said all that, it just seems like you ignored it. The biggest issue people have with mexicans and syrians is that they don't make an effort to assimilate and there's far too many of them.
>obvious bait and hate
What do you mean by this? It seems like pretty genuine vitriol to me. There's also the sentiment that even if they do pay for it, it's still not, "meant for them". I'm considered a weirdo in my own country, you could say that for most people on ubuu. It seems like weirdos over there don't feel any sense of camaraderie with people who share the same intersts. I haven't seen it at least.

Anyway, I thought about dying my hair black and putting on shades plus a surgical mask, but not only would that possibly not work, it would feel deceptive. A full mask would just draw more attention to myself. It would be nice to be able to change my appearance so I could blend in anywhere, but by the time that technology becomes available, I bet it'll cause mass hysteria and paranoia, or be reserved for the military strictly. Maybe becoming a robot or something would help, but I'd have to hide the fact I was human at some point and people would possibly also hate you or see you as less than human, which isn't much of an improvement. It feels as if there's no places where I would be accepted. I don't want to be one of those rich pricks who uses their money to section themself off from the rest of the population. I want to really feel like I belong in a place I like. America is a shabby, festering pile of exploitation, hypocrisy and self-righteousness. If you have money, you get to live in an ivory tower. The only great thing about it is its nature.

 No.1051

>>1050
I definitely wouldn't get plastic surgery though. Anybody who would do it to totally change their appearance permanently lacks the self-respect essential to any person.

 No.1052

File: 1545505467529.png (1.14 MB, 1280x720, 1544889410611.png)

>>1050
>I already addressed that in my post, did you read the whole thing? It doesn't matter if you know the language and how to behave, you are still a forever outisder, and not even a more respected one as there is only one large lump of outsiders.
Yes I did, and in case you don't realize you were reading the comment of some of the most whinny persons on earth complaining about chinese and koreans. Do you take /b/ and /pol/ seriously too?
How come most people on THIS thread are either "I hate some, but I'm fine with most" or even "I like foreigners"? https://society6.5ch.net/test/read.cgi/kokusai/1184982783/

>>1050
>And little of what you just said is mentioned in any thread. It's just conjecture on your part
>It's just conjecture on your part
Did you even read the threads you posted?
>https://gimpo.5ch.net/test/read.cgi/lifesaloon/1178721525/

>>102
>うちで働いてる外人
>ここんとこの暑さで熱中症になったら大変だと思って
>普段ただの水飲んでるから、麦茶と、アクエリアスの粉のを買ってきて
>1Lのペットボトルに1袋入れて飲んでねと渡しておいたけど
>どういうつもりだかほとんど飲まないでただの水飲んでる
>案の定、昨日一人ダウン
>今日になってもう一度丁寧に説明したけど
>生返事ばっかりしやがって、やっぱ理解してないみたい
>日本に永住したいと思ってんならもっと日本語勉強しろや
>お前らに倒れられたら困るのはこっちなんだよ
>色んな意味で

>>380
>東京で電車に乗ると、
>中国語で大声で話す連中を結構見かける。

>>410
>ほんと米軍のやつらなんとかして。
>基地が休みの日とか、電車の中ですげえでかい声で騒いでるよ。
>しかも体臭あるからくせー。

And I could go on with another 20 or so I read in JUST in that thread.

>What do you mean by this? It seems like pretty genuine vitriol to me

obvious bait: I was reading the latest Naruto in the convenience store – are the foreigners jealous of me? Forgive me, Sasuke…”
obvious hate: fuck you guys you are ruining our fucking manga go read manhua REEEEE

 No.1053

>>1052
You still haven't addressed my housing point. I also said little. I know there's some exceptions, i'm just talking about the majority. Most of your examples are from older threads, which I also mentioned were more reasonable. People are always saying Japanese image boards aren't subject to the same problems as western ones and people there tend to take things less seriously and are more respectful.

 No.1054

>>1053
>You still haven't addressed my housing point.
Look, from what I've seen, japanese people think in binary in this regard: You're either nip or you're not. But that's not bad by itself, just because you're not japanese doesn't mean they'll automatically despise you or vice versa. So if you want to be integrated into "japanese society" (i.e. turn japanese), so to speak, then yes, that's a pipe dream. This doesn't mean they're aggressive racists, just that you will never be part of their inner circle of dai nippon teikoku, because it's part of their culture, how they think. And unless you have been bathed on it since birth, it's hard to fully grasp it. You can still be successful in japan if things go very well for you, but pretending to be japanese is not okay for them for some reason.

>People are always saying Japanese image boards aren't subject to the same problems as western ones and people there tend to take things less seriously and are more respectful.

Who the fuck told you that? They're no different from 4chan, except they're not so full of stupid memes and bullshit like "sjw", "incel", "pepes", etc. Or rather, they have their hikkis and wizards, they're just not fully mental like in our imageboards and plot to get revenge on chad and stacy and their muslim black mexican tumblr kids.

 No.1055

File: 1545510389886.jpg (132.58 KB, 850x631, __original_drawn_by_winter….jpg)

>>1054
This pretty much reflects what I've read. I never thought I could, "become Japanese", or have other people see me as exactly like them. Just have some other, non-tourist position that's respectable. Even Turks in Germany or Tartars in Poland aren't lumped with complete outsiders. Only the biggest extremists seem to have a problem with them. The kind of non-aggressive discrimination in Japan makes people who busted their ass feel unrecognized. Again, it seems contradictory to me. I really don't see how refusing expats apartments is justifiable either.

There's also the fact that foreigners are nigh incapable of forming close relationships there, but I've heard that's even a problem for natives. Even people with type B blood or descendants of the traditionally lowest caste in feudal Japan get similarish treatment. Hence why I started thinking, what about the creatives? What about the non-conformists in this highly conformist society? What I found doesn't look good. Maybe 2ch isn't an accurate reflection of that subset of the population, but what would be then? I don't know. Maybe i'm just going crazy.

 No.1056

>>1055
Also, when Hachisuka(bury maker) or Zenmaigahara acted unreasonably, people got so outraged and shocked, but isn't that just normal? Isn't it par for the course?

 No.1057

>>1055
From what I recall, the housing problem is mostly because most landlords are old, around in their 80's, thus they're much more stiff regarding foreigners than others. It also seems extremely recent.
Where I live, a lot of people in their 20's come from Israel come and stay in hostels. Or rather, they used to. Now most hostels don't want to house them and even claim their rooms are full even if they're not just because they don't want to deal with them. Pretty racist, you'd say, right? Turns out these kids are a disaster. They break things, and make a lot of mess, and so the owners just don't want to deal with that crap anymore. How true is this, now after some time has passed? I really can't tell. But that's how things are now. Maybe it's the same in Japan; a lot of tenants were just a disaster, communications were bad, and so the rumors that gaijin are shitty tenants spread like a fire?

>Maybe 2ch isn't an accurate reflection of that subset of the population, but what would be then? I don't know. Maybe i'm just going crazy.

2ch is good for knowing what bothers part of the society, but not all of the society. It's a place where hon'ne prevails over tatemae, populated by people from all social strands, but where being spiteful isn't odd at all. You just have to take it with a grain of salt, like in western imageboards. Here I don't mind calling people faggots and niggers just because (even when I'm not racist), but in real life I don't go spouting this stuff everywhere. They're the same over there.

>>1056
It's really hit or miss. Most japanese authors are extremely respectful, even when demanding something of you (i.e. please take this download off), but others just snap really bad. Zenmaigahara apologized already, so I think he just was mad at *some* western kid who stole his stuff and was being spiteful with that anonymous entity, but that backfired when westerns took it as an insult and miscommunication lead to it all.
I don't even know what's wrong with Hachisuka, so I can't even say a thing about why he went full retard with the "I want to keep track of the fandom" thing. Maybe he can't read english?

 No.1058

>>1057
Are those Israelites trying to become permanent residents? From what I understand, there's a big difference between hostels and full blown apartments.
>populated by people from all social strands
Realy, huh? Aren't western image boards almost entirely populated by social pariahs? 2ch even has a guro board and going from what some Japanophiles who hate weebs have to say, stuff like that is heavily frowned upon by the normals there, they just, "tolerate", it unlike in the west. How would I go about finding hikkimori's\otaku's perception then if normals frequent 2ch?

From all of this, i'm thinking once i'm old enough I should just be a mountain hermit provided I could feed myself, have internet, and make trips to civilization when I needed something. Somehow that feels pathetic and defeatist though. I hunger for something, but I don't know exactly what it is or where I can get it.

 No.1059

>>1058
>Are those Israelites trying to become permanent residents? From what I understand, there's a big difference between hostels and full blown apartments.
No, just tourists, but I was trying to rationalize why they'd do that.

>Realy, huh? Aren't western image boards almost entirely populated by social pariahs? 2ch even has a guro board and going from what some Japanophiles who hate weebs have to say, stuff like that is heavily frowned upon by the normals there, they just, "tolerate", it unlike in the west. How would I go about finding hikkimori's\otaku's perception then if normals frequent 2ch?

You are mixing up the imageboard futaba (2chan) with the textboard nichan (2ch). They're not the same, 2ch has both "normalfags" and pariahs. Futaba, on the other hand, is for social outcasts (i.e. otaku). Those are the guys with the porn, lolis and guro.
Raiju and otaku normally don't leave their boards, and they only converge in places like VIP. Occasionally. You know, 2ch has like 10 million posts per day, that can't be the work of just the otaku. Look up some info, I remember reading the popularity of 2ch is due to the fact you can bitch as much as you want without having to deal with the consequences of having your name attached to it.

>From all of this, i'm thinking once i'm old enough I should just be a mountain hermit provided I could feed myself, have internet, and make trips to civilization when I needed something. Somehow that feels pathetic and defeatist though. I hunger for something, but I don't know exactly what it is or where I can get it.

Eh, I don't know, I'd like to live in Tohno or Shirakawa-go or some quite place like that in my future, since it seems that they're more calm and chill over those places than Tokyo. I don't think Japan is really that bad, most of the time when I read people complaining about lifestyles in Tokyo it seems to me they never understood Japanese mentality in the first place. Not like I do, probably. But I know that not everything is roses and wine, and people can be shitty on this country already so it's not like dealing with slanted-eyes assholes would make my day worse.

 No.1060

>>1045
TL;DR: Don't move to Japan.

 No.1061

File: 1545534369846.jpg (301.32 KB, 850x550, __original_drawn_by_sumash….jpg)

>>1059
This is all very good to know and i'm very thankful towards you for explaining it to me. Maybe i'm in a trasitional phase and these are the growing pains.



[Return][Go to top] [Catalog] [Post a Reply]
Delete Post [ ]
[ yn / yndd / fg / yume ] [ o / lit / media / og / ig / 2 ] [ ot / hikki / cc / x / sugg ] [ news / rules / faq / recent / annex / manage ] [ discord / scans / mud / minecraft ] [ aurorachan / desuchan / sushigirl / lewd ]