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/yn/ - Yume Nikki General

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And we're back! Apologies for the long downtime. The entire OS had to be reinstalled, so errors are likely. Please report any issues to seisatsu@seisat.su.

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 No.7282

Is YN still good? Was it ever?

All of this hoopla surrounding the steam release and the countdown and spin offs and what has got me thinking. Can anyone enjoy this game anymore? It was really enjoyable when we first played it, finding all the neat little hidden events, the discovery of Steve 'Leif' Kareha and Mars Junior, and many other little things, and the copious amounts of theories and theorizing that we went over and over.

But it's such an old game, and one that might not of aged really well in my opinion. It's so old, I feel like we've discussed everything about it. Absolutely everything that could be said has already been said and there's nothing more to say. Everything has been talked to death, even the smallest of details has been scrutinized and amounted to nothing in the end. As always, we're still left in the dark about the game's story. According to a dubious interview with Kikiyama there WAS no story. All it was was an experiment in RPG Maker and nothing more. Even if there's no proof that the game's author said this, I feel inclined to believe it at this point. Even if it does have some sort of hidden meaning, we've undoubtedly talked it over and over at some point in the past. Now the only reason we cling to it is because of nostalgia, to try and remember all the feelings it envoked when we first played it.

Will a new audience enjoy it? I'd say, probably not. Like I said, there's no more discussion. There's nothing new we can talk about. And all sorts of games have been released since then, which greatly surpass YN in terms of just about everything. Even it's own fangames are better, whether it's .flow and it's more complex story, or Yume 2kki and it's hugeness and beauty. We created them for our nostalgia as well, to, again, try and evoke those same feelings. This cannot be done by simply playing the game again. Once is the only time you get. Once you see everything, there's nothing else left.

Those nostalgic feelings are being preyed upon, as most games are doing nowadays, by Kikiyama or Kadokawa or whoever. To sell crappy merch for a 20 year old game. A game with no story. A tabula rasa. It's so fucking easy for them to bribe people with a keychain of their favorite 'character', who never talks nor does anything really, or a paid for explanation in the form of a shitty manga (and was that ever actually finished?), and an album of Vocaloid songs. This time will likely be no different. It's a publicity stunt to drum up interest in a long dead game. Even if it is an update or a sequel, will it be good? Will it be necessary? What will come of it, besides the selling of more toys and comics? Maybe even a collectable card game? Or amiibos? Whatever 'art' YN was was nonexistence in the first place or has sense been traded away for ca$h. There's nothing to love anymore. This was it's destiny though, if it wasn't created for any real reason and just by a broke guy in his spare time. Now it's lining his pockets. Soon it'll be no different than FNAF. I guess that's good for him though. He's finally found a 'point' to it. YN was dead on arrival, or died with Madotsuki. Now they're just kicking it.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have a balcony to jump off of.

 No.7284

Fuck off with this contrarian horseshit.

 No.7286

>>7282
I empathize with your take on selling shitty merch for the "nostalgia". In general nostalgia gets way too misinterpreted. It used to be thinking back on good memories you had with something but now it's buying something that somehow resembles the medium you used to like.

I don't fear that it will stop being enjoyable. Sure, due to the steam release it will get a bigger audience (who are the prime demographic for the goods you mention)
I'm pretty sure most oldfag YN fans doubt Kadokawa and fear its new popularity but there's nothing to worry about. We still got us. We had a good time playing and talking about it back then and that can't get replaced.

The most I can do is hope the people who get into it now don't fall for the sale trap.
If some 13-year olds and their friends play the game for whatever reason and then talk about it with their friends, it's enough.
Some may even get inspired, start writing theories, draw or whatever. They're not the first but that doesn't matter.

 No.7297

>Is YN still good? Was it ever?
Yes and yes, though I suppose that opinion isn't surprising considering where you are.

>It's so old, I feel like we've discussed everything about it.

That's an inherent thing about media though. You experience it, you discuss it, you move on. Just because we've squeezed out every possible modicum of entertainment doesn't mean it's not good anymore.

>Will a new audience enjoy it? I'd say, probably not.

They absolutey would. It doesn't matter that the internet is already stuffed to the brim with YN discussion. A blind playthrough of the game is just as rewarding as ever. I feel like YN discussion gets so wrapped up in theories and speculation that everyone tends to forget that it's a really compelling game even outside of that.

>And all sorts of games have been released since then, which greatly surpass YN in terms of just about everything.

This might be an unpopular opinion, and I haven't touched them in years, but I don't like those games nearly as much. 2kki feels like a crowd sourced game, like a hodgepodge of ideas created by a group of people rather than a cohesive product created by one person with a distinct voice. Conversely, .flow is hampered by its own cohesion, where the presence of a more definite story and a more consistent tone just makes it less interesting to discover. It feels like there's an expectation for the player to try and piece together a story, and the great thing about YN has always been the complete lack of any kind of expectation for anything. YN has a better balance. There's a consistent voice to it and there are even a lot of recurring motifs, but the tone of the game changes greatly from area to area. It stays fresh without feeling disjointed.
I do vastly prefer .flow to 2kki, fwiw.

>Those nostalgic feelings are being preyed upon, as most games are doing nowadays

I wholeheartedly agree. I haven't posted here in years, and I'm really just here to try and gather some info about whatever this new YN thing is. My gut is telling me to stay away.

 No.7299

Yume Nikki was and is good as an exploration game, I think it's good, although not as good as some people say.

About new audiences, well, there are different types:
Casuals, those who find the game trending, try it, and hate it, like "boring wtf all u do is walking there is no story fuck this".

Posers, those who will like it because it's popular, like it happened with Tumblrtale.

Those two groups represent most of the new audience, there is a third group though.

The new, free of cancer fans, those who will lurk, investigate and enjoy the game without ruining it for others, bless and welcome.

I am not going to deny it though, if you're wondering if we will have underage cancer, furries and feminists trying to abuse YN to insert their agendas, yes, these will happen.

 No.7302

>>7282
A game doesn't need discussion about it or a story to be good. That's a superficial mentality. Yume Nikki always had and always will have its positive traits. It is timeless and does not use passing fads as a crutch. While you may not get the same enjoyment from it, that does not diminish its quality. Your perception of it has no effect on Yume Nikki. Yume Nikki does not belong to you or anybody. Yume Nikki is always happening. Mado is always roaming her dream land. It is present-tense. Long after you're dead, Yume Nikki will still exist and still be just as great.

 No.7304

>According to a dubious interview with Kikiyama there WAS no story.

>Even if there's no proof that the game's author said this, I feel inclined to believe it at this point.


Kikiyama's website:

>とても暗い雰囲気の、夢の中(という設定)の世界を歩き回るゲームです。特にストーリーや目的はありません。歩き回るだけのゲームです。

 No.7337

>>7304
Not having a story, as in a conventional plot-line with characters and dialogue, doesn't mean that the events, object and places in YN don't hold some connected meaning.

 No.7347

>>7337
>A game about walking around in a really dark world inside dreams. There's no particular story or objective. It's a game for just walking around.
You will inevitably connect the dots because you are human, but by itself kikiyama said that there is nothing in particular going on. Therefore, anything is valid because nothing can be proven. That doesn't change the fact kiki said there's no story or objective.

 No.7359

>>7347
If there's no "truth" to be discovered then what's the point? All it becomes is a basic walking sim game that's supposed to "make you think". There's no higher purpose or meaning or anything.

Really the "come up with your own meaning for it cause it doesn't have one really" feels lazy. Why's Mado locked in her room? She just is, there's no reason for it really beyond convenience. It makes the game look super shallow if literally no thought was actually put into it. The only thing making it "deep" is what the fans think of it. Really Kikiyama probably just put in things he thought were cool and didn't care.

 No.7360

>>7359
Please fuck off, you liberal arts major. Something does need any super hyper deep plot to be good and having that doesn't make it good. See fnaf as a perfect example of that. You call it shallow, I call it imaginative and innovative. If fnaf is what's considered deep, i'm glad that yume nikki isn't. Atmosphere faggot. Atmosphere is what makes Yume Nikki great. Mado might not have had any concrete backstory, but her mind alone is interesting enough to capture my interest.

 No.7361

>>7360
>does not need

 No.7369

I started playing it again since steam makes it easier to run and it's just as comfy and atmospheric as I remembered. So yes, YN is still good. At least in my opinion.

 No.7381

>>7360
Atmosphere? Who plays a game for atmosphere?

Joking aside, I feel like YN's ambience will eventually grow stale with too much exposure and it goes from being beautiful to just annoying. Without any sort of plot you're basically torturing yourself for no good reason except to have a girl kill herself for no good reason. The Hell Maze, for example, might be tense the first time around, but subsequent treks through the area will leave you frustrated at having no idea where you're going, having to look at eye-searing red, listening to the same droning beat on a loop, and cursing fucking Toris for getting in your way. Unless you want to move at a snail's pace through the maze to avoid them. The whole game is like that. And there's no point to any of it.

Taking away any sort of plot leaves you playing as a boring RPG hero rather than "a troubled girl with a dark and mysterious past you must discern for yourself" which is infinitely more exciting because it's an actual character. Breaking the illusion of any sort of story leaves the entire game a dull traipse through a vast, empty dream world with a limited number of things to do, and after seeing it once, are you really going to go back for an encore? Are you going to go back and forth into Poniko's house turning on the lightswitch fifty times just to see UBOA again? Rewatching the event on youtube seems like it'd be less exhausting. And it still leaves you with nothing in the end.

YN isn't really imaginative nor particularly innovative. It was done a long time before in the form of LSD, and no one talks about that, despite it arguably being a far better "dream game" because it's actually randomized unlike YN, which is the exact same thing over and over. LSD is probably bigger too, and more elaborate. Despite this, no one's making any VNs for it, or merchandise, and it's certainly not getting any Steam releases.

It's caring about the game solely for it's appearance that's a large part of why it's starting to get marketed so much now. Who cares about it having depth, when you can be satisfied with adorable little Mado. Better yet, why not buy a big box of Mado phone charms, stickers, and keychains, and a FACE fridge magnet so your room too will capture the same sort of feeling that YN has and always will have. Also included is a free sweater, a morally questionable Poniko poster and a CD of game OST that have been looped for sixteen hours and a collection of reassuring phrases along with it, with lines such as "Yume Nikki is totally real" and "Monoko is best girl".

I'm not saying YN is a horrible game by any means, I just think it's kinda overrated for what it really is and that people tend to overhype it a bit too much. Which leads into Kikiyama selling his soul for all the money that the countdown stunt is gonna reel in with the upcoming phone game, phone game ad revenue, phone game in app purchasing, VN, VN DLC, plushies, manga, anime, unknown other project, official Mado vocaloid, and all sorts of other merch that rapidly devalues and debases what Yume Nikki once was. Along with the inevitable shilling from youtube LP greats like Markiplier, MatPat, and Pewdiepie.

Look at what happened to fnaf. It coulda been good, for what it was. Having a fanbase of ten year olds keeps people from taking it seriously though, but at least Scott Cawthon is loaded and no longer suicidal. He didn't care for it in the first place however and just made it cause he was pissed. The story within it is super weak and the gameplay is kinda just Night Trap or Double Switch with Weeping Angels. But the typical "ghost children and murderer" plot does sorta help with the game's atmosphere. Not very well, but to a fault. It's more nonsensical anyway and, again, he doesn't give a crap about it.

 No.7384

>>7381
>Unless you want to move at a snail's pace through the maze to avoid them.
Stop light effect. It's not the game's fault if you choose to make things harder on yourself. Map drawing is also useful. YN is actually really simmilar to the first legend of zelda in that way. I'm suprised that more people don't make that comparison.

A game does not need a high a replayability factor to be good. Just becuase you personally don't get as much out of the game the second time, that doesn't diminish the quality of the game itself. A generic game that is just as fun every time, doesn't hold a candle to a game that deeply resonates with you on the first.

What does it matter if the game relies on aesthetics to create an atmosphere? That's yet another aspect of any game. You may think it is superficial, but to me that seems very stupid. Yume Nikki is better than lcd dream simulator for two reasons, 1. It gives you a very specific feeling that nothing else quite does. Lcd sim is too much like actual dreams. It's just bizarre and a little unnerving, but not in an actually interesting way like Yume Nikki is. Lcd sim is just plain, old bland compared to YN. It's not memorable. Being randomized makes it even worse in that respect. Lcd sim achieves its goal and accurately simulates dreams, but that doesn't make for an interesting and memorable experience. Every npc and location is memorable in YN. YN does not set out to make you feel like you are the one dreaming, it gives you a picutre into somebody else's mind, which is far more engaging.

Yume Nikki may not have a concrete, "deep", story, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't have emotional and personal significance. The events of the game and the characters all illicit some emotion from the player, and that was clearly intentional. The things in Mado's dream might not gives any clues into a non-existent, ultra-deep backstory or past-trauma, but they do give incite into Mado's personality. I cared about who Mado is, not what she is. Implying that fnaf a, "a pretty decent game", is better than Yume Nikki which is apparently, "just mediocre", is a fucking insult.

 No.7386

>>7384
LCD Simulator feels like what it is, a bunch of maps that are filled by a computer with pre-programmed events thrown in that are triggered at random.

Yume Nikki has a cohesive atmosphere throughout, despite the dream setting. I only half believe what kikiyama says about YN really being about nothing, because the dreamscape layout and design is so deliberate. The message within the dreams is codified in a language only kikiyama fully understands, but it is definitely there, and the game deliberately slips pieces of it through typical conventions (music, colors, gameplay).

It's such a genius game and no purported "walking simulator" has ever came close to what YN is.

 No.7388

>>7381
>>7282
You know what's really pointless? All this fucking wall of text. What are you even trying to say, man? Just leave.

 No.7393

>>7386
Even though it sounds kinda paranoid, I am pretty worried about YN going down a similar path as FNAF.

It's completely irrational, but I fear that it's going to attract a younger fanbase of kids now who'll force it into having a undertale style rpg filled with memes or something. The tumblr fanbase is already pretty unbearable. I don't want a bunch of infants in here.

Matpat and other yt assholes will probably jump on it though, and bring in a whole new wave of cancerous fans. I don't want to see YN getting perverted like that. It sounds stupid, but it's like seeing a close family friend getting raped and turned into a Barney the Dinosaur kiddie show.

If that's what enough people want, Kadokawa will sell it for as much as they can and ignore the oldest fans, turning it into meme trash. They're working on a VN already which I just don't see the point of. Dialog kinda ruins the point of the game at all.

 No.7394

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>>7386
I the The Path actually comes pretty close. It's similarly comfy and ambient. Shame the devs turned out to be artfag assholes though. (See, one of the creators going fucking ballistic over the failure of Sunset. He went on an ugly and nasty temper tantrum tirade against 'gamers' and said he was going to quit making games forever, but didn't).
I wonder how someone so ignorant can create such a work of art?
I think the difference between 'walking sim' and 'exploration game' is that the latter is actually fun. I don't know why so many art games started shifted away from that to being dull as dishwater walking sims. I blame Dear Esther because of it, cause a lot of recent ones seem to try and emulate it's psychological nature hike thing. That's great and all in theory, but also actually pretty boring in practice when you can literally just go for a walk around your nearest park.

 No.7395

>>7393
The game's been out for nearly two decades, come on man.

 No.7396

File: 1516233414112.jpg (1.94 MB, 1680x1050, questviewer-2008-11-15-16-….jpg)

>>7394

yessss i love the path. all things considered the gameplay is pretty much identical to YN, aside from there being an "objective". the atmosphere is almost tangible.
that's a shame about the creators though, but not surprising given the content of their other games.



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