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/yn/ - Yume Nikki General

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File: 1480605263330.png (21.04 KB, 600x700, 1355397672698.png)

 No.5988

Hello dear Ubuu. I'm considering making a live action low-budget Yume Nikki movie. Haven't decided yet if it'll be a short or feature-length, or what worlds/areas to omit, or what the details of the story will be. I'm curious about what you guys/girls/squirrelkin think: good/bad idea, potential legal troubles since no one can ask Kikiyama for permission, what should stay, what should go, what the effects should be like (the token idea from the comic seems doable), what you'd like to see in such a production, whether or not you think dropping a crossover from something else is a good idea, etc.

I'm really just gathering my thoughts on the concept and who better to ask than fellow fans of the ganme? I do think that I'd like it to have little to no dialogue just like the game, very much "show don't tell." Also, has anyone talked about this anywhere before?

Can't wait to see what comes from this. Thanks in advance, everyone :-)

 No.5989

>I'm considering making a live action low-budget Yume Nikki movie
Awesome! Although I'm not sure how you would do the settings on a low budget, that might be something to consider when deciding what to omit.

>Short or feature length

Probably not feature length.

>Legal troubles

Don't worry about that. Even if you where selling DVDs and not just exhibiting it online, I doubt kiki would do anything about it.

>Effects

Well, my favourites are witch, lamppost, and umbrella.

>What worlds

Ones I'd like to see are:
Puddle world
Ghost world
The white desert
The static maze
The barracks settlement
The sky garden

>Crossover

Defiantly not a full on crossover, but including things from fan games that are considered canon might work.

>No dialogue

Completely agree. In fact, I'd go so fat as to say no written words besides the title (and maybe that's in moonrunes or indecipherable dream sigils something)

How much filmmaking experience do you have? If you've put any films on youtube do you thing you could link to them?

 No.5990

File: 1480612004087.jpg (222.9 KB, 1920x1080, Short Film - 20160224 - Th….jpg)

>>5989
>I'm not sure how you would do the settings on a low budget
It would be a challenge, for sure, but green/blue screen and After Effects could get it done pretty well for such a surreal set of environments. The number of worlds and effects means each one will need a different approach to capturing their essence on video. I have some vague ideas as to how I could use a combination of practical set components and editing trickery to create some of the environments.

>Probably not feature length.

I thought this as well, though it really depends on how much story I can milk out of each world. Movie adaptations rarely treat the canon as gospel, and I could see some deviations with my own take on them being useful. For example, perhaps a short side story with the flying thing in the white desert whose name I forget every time I try to remember it, or some sort of extended interaction with Uboa.

>Don't worry about that.

I'm paranoid, but you're also probably correct. Kikiyama has essentially disowned the property and would have to come out of the shadows to come after me. I'd like to think Kikiyama would be very happy to see his work adapted into a film.

>including things from fan games that are considered canon

Given that there's already so much in Yume Nikki all by itself, I'm not inclined to cross anything over, though I know some fans would love to see X obscure character from Yume 5flowki or something in it ;-)

>no written words besides the title

Well, there'd need to be some text just like in the game, but I know what you mean and agree. ああああああああ

>How much filmmaking experience do you have?

Very little. I have two shorts under my belt, one which was hastily put together on a whim, the other is a silent B&W film that took me over a month because I had to compose a full score for the thing and had not composed any useful music ever before. I have a lot of experience with photography and some experience with various types of video.

>If you've put any films on youtube

I hadn't really thought to do that until you mentioned it. I'll post the silent film right now and link at the end of this post. It's a year old and I've learned a lot more since then, but most of the video stuff I've done isn't proper filmmaking, it's dull crap like videos for websites and product reviews that don't take a lot of effort or provide much creative satisfaction.

https://youtu.be/GiJK6o0NbIc

 No.5991

Cool, I have no idea how you are going to pull it with a low budget but you don't lose anything by giving it a try.

>potential legal troubles since no one can ask Kikiyama for permission

C'mon, haven't you heard of the fraud of Surfer Para? Just pretend you sent him a mail and he said "OK! PLS MILK MY PRODUCT", they did that anyway.

>whether or not you think dropping a crossover from something else is a good idea

Bad idea in my opinion, if it's about YN, including other stuff ruins the mood.

 No.5992

>>5990
The music in that silent film is really good. Some orchestral/whatever adoptions of the original music could work well.

 No.5993

File: 1480619122797.jpg (2.83 MB, 4752x3168, IMG_0737.JPG)

>>5992
It's actually really great to hear that from someone. That's the first time I've ever tried to compose anything and it took longer to write the score than all the shooting and editing combined. Anyone who thinks they can avoid audio problems by making it a silent film doesn't know what they're really getting into!

The biggest issue with the YN "music" is that there really isn't music as we think of it in most of the worlds; it's mostly ambient tracks or five-second loops. A film like I'm envisioning would need the opposite: a complete score just like a silent film would have. The music makes up for the lack of words.

What has me really excited about the idea of a YN movie is the amount of creativity and interpretation I'd be able to put into it. I'd want to have an actual story so I'd have to choose one of the many theories about the nature of Madotsuki to roll with. The worlds are a visual feast practically begging to be delivered.

(Just for kicks, here's a photo I took a month ago.)

 No.5994

>>5990
>>5993
Hey, that was pretty fun.
The only thing I could complain for is that I personally felt some scenes were extremely long, even for ye ol' cinema standards. It may be only me though. But it was still pretty fun.

Do you still have the music sheets around? I'd be interested in adding them to my collection if you don't mind.

 No.5995

>>5994
I made it all in FruityLoops by choosing chords and playing around them. I don't have music sheets but I could see about dumping them. I have the files on SoundCloud if you want just the individual songs: https://soundcloud.com/jodyleebruchon/sets/the-old-mans-pendant-soundtrack

I agree that some of the scenes are long. For what it's worth, it was also the first thing I edited that was serious in any way. The first three things were music videos.

 No.6000

File: 1480825272410.png (488.07 KB, 720x800, 86bcf0bcb59540e9d2a4ee62c5….png)

>>5988
That is awesome. Personally, I have never seen anyone talk about this, so dropping this would definetly give us who still enjoy the work of art Kikiyama created something to look foward too. As for Kikiyama caring, I dought he would for two main reasons, first being that he never got any profit off of the game itself, and second being I dought he would want to ruin an artist's hard work and also drop his anonymity he has kept for so long. Not to mention as long as you say something like, "All characters belong to Kikiyama" or something like that, than it wouldn't be copywrite infringement anyways. But yeah, I wish you good luck and also, do you have any ideas for actors?

 No.6001

>>6000
I'll have to break this post up since Uboachan doesn't like something about it and keeps dropping the post. For actors I'd do a search local to me. I live close to quite a few large population centers and college towns.

I'm inclined to cast a college-aged girl as Madotsuki for a couple of reasons. The depiction of her as a 12-year-oldish girl is a fan thing and her age isn't clear in the game at all. Child actors are generally more difficult to direct than adults and here in the United States there are a whole host of additional restrictions to worry about. Also, I haven't asked her yet since I'm still in early pre-production but I have a younger sister in college with brown hair that might be willing to take the role and I obviously know I can direct her well.

 No.6002

>>6001
Most of the characters in the game are only shown for a short time (the witch, the dead man in the street, the snow woman, the Toriningen, the jellyfishes, etc.) and would need to be in a full costume or face makeup. Casting is easy when you'll see very little or none of the person involved.

A bigger problem for me is writing a story. Any movie that tries to pull off Yume Nikki and remain totally faithful to the game would have to have lots of long boring walking shots and it would be an art film doomed to obscurity. It's challenging to apply a concrete story to something as vague, open, and richly theorized about as YN. What would I have Poniko, Monoe, etc. actually do? How will I introduce Uboa? Do I really want to depict a poop monster? How can I create conflict from something that is so innocently exploratory and "safe" in nature without it coming off like a children's movie? How can I write a concrete story that deals with all these issues AND that I can faithfully shoot and edit on a low budget?

I'd love it if more people chimed in on this idea. I'm also thinking about how I'd fund it because that will be a HUGE factor in determining what I can realistically convert from a screenplay to the big screen. Kickstarter, Indiegogo, Patreon? The interest and community around YN seems to be very small these days, so will enough actually want to chip in $20 for a YN movie to bring it from no-budget to low-budget? Financing a film is really hard and doing it for something that has fallen into relative obscurity even more so.

I wish more people would chime in on this! I want to hear as many thoughts as possible.

 No.6003

>>6002
I'd also like some input on what to omit from the screenplay. FACE seems like a thing to drop, for example.

 No.6004

>>6003
I'm also inclined to drop the entire FC world. I never liked it and trying to reproduce it in live action doesn't seem to be worth it.

 No.6007

>>6004
It'd be very difficult to incorporate the FC World without getting very creative with it because it just wouldn't feel right. Going from live action to basically 8bit would be more jarring than everything else. So I'd second dropping that out, even if it's one of my personal favorite parts of the game.

 No.6020

After mulling it over for a while, I think the copyright issue is too risky. I could make a fan film but even if I made no money from it Kiki could pop up out of nowhere and sue me to oblivion. Instead I think I'd like to make a film inspired by and similar to Yume Nikki, but NOT using the exact same characters, areas, etc.

 No.6021

File: 1481411974061.png (10.81 KB, 128x128, 246810012645720066.png)

>>6020
If you make no money, then Kiki has no legal means to sue you.

You're also presuming that Kiki will emerge out of hiding and vindictively sue a fan project via international lawsuit.

 No.6022

>>6021
Making money is not necessary to infringe on copyright (nor is it necessary to avoid to claim fair use.) The problem is that Kikiyama licensed Yume Nikki to Surfer's Paradise to make merch a couple of years ago. It's risky using someone else's copyrighted stuff without permission and there's no chance I'll secure permission. Plus, if I'm going to put that much effort into making something, I'd want to be able to make money off of it in the future, especially if I don't get enough from donations or crowdfunding to make it.

It's not that I think Kiki will sue me, it's that the risk exists and any rewards will be wiped out if it becomes reality.

 No.6023

File: 1481420020591.jpg (59.98 KB, 540x304, 20120212004846278.jpg)

>>6022
>The problem is that Kikiyama licensed Yume Nikki to Surfer's Paradise to make merch a couple of years ago.
What? you don't seriously believe in this, do you? It's such a big fraud, they even said kiki would sing a song, where is the video? We went as far as sending a mail to surfer paradise asking about how kiki was and how did they contact him and they never replied. And even if we leave that aside, I suggest you to visit the panda for a while and see how fans are making a profit out of "copyrighted" material, thousands of them, since many, many years ago, so far into the past some of us weren't even born.

It's up to you to decide on this though, but even to this day I see dozens of fan-made projects floating around, both for free and profit-aimed, and nobody is getting their ass blasted by the holy hand of mighty justice and pushing them into the sacred FBI's van for that.

 No.6024

File: 1481420110637.jpg (9.66 KB, 236x169, 3bd1cf74f913343dd42b1a574c….jpg)


 No.6025

>>6022
>Kikiyama licensed Yume Nikki to Surfer's Paradise to make merch
Source for this bs pls

 No.6026

>>6023
Basically this. I can't think of anyone who's been outright sued for copyright infringement for fanworks and conventions worldwide are rife with people making dosh off of copywritten and trademarked materials in the various vendors halls and artist alleys completely unlicensed. The only things that really get shut down are fanworks shared via common social media, because it's easy to throw a C&D at someone and social media auto complies; heck, most of that noise turns out to be fraudulent false flags in the first place (not that the social media companies care to do anything about preventing false flags…)

If you do want to publish it in a way that you can earn money for the work, then the *right* thing would be to make a unique work inspired by YN. But I'm pretty sure getting sued by Kiki for a YN-derived movie is just not gonna happen.

 No.6027

File: 1481422181859.jpg (89.86 KB, 700x393, 1457610547952.jpg)

>>6026
Yeah, also let's not forget japan is different from the rest of the world in that they actually respect fan-work. I mean, look at comiket, there's a reason the police doesn't blast the place.

 No.6028

>Copyright
Seriously its no different than doujin, lets plays, fan animations or dedicated imageboards .

 No.6031

>>6022
In order for you to be sued, you would have to be directly selling DVDs/Blu Rays of the movie or showing screenings of it. Even if you monetize it via advertisements on YouTube, the only thing the copyright holder could do is claim the ad revenue.

Note how Sakimichan can get away with making literally $500,000+ a year via Patreon drawing almost exclusively copyrighted characters (including some owned by Disney!) because she is selling "tutorials" of her drawing them, lol.

 No.6032

>>6023
>>6025
I don't have a source for surpara. It's more of a worst-case assumption on my part. The truth is that no one here knows for a fact that they do OR DON'T have permission from Kikiyama; it's all pure speculation. I prefer to speculate unfavorably for myself when legal questions are involved.

>>6024
lolwut

>>6026
>>6027
>>6028
Japan tends to be tolerant of fan works, but those works are technically still actionable. I do agree that the risk is very small though. The more I look into it, the more it looks like I can pull it off without the risk being worth worrying about.

>>6031
Making money is not required for copyright infringement and you're forgetting the risk of punitive damages being awarded (up to $150,000 per infringement) on top of actual damages (the ad revenue you mention). I wasn't aware of Sakimichan before but I see your point.

 No.6033

>>6032
There are no cases of people creating free fanworks and being successfully sued. Like ever. One time The Pokemon Company tried to sue a kid and they ended up losing money in the process, lol.

Do what you wanna do man, but don't pretend that getting sued by Kikiyama over this is even a remote possibility.

 No.6034

>>6032
No one is going to sue you, do you have any idea how many people rubbed their armpits with kiki's copyright? Or how many Sonic fans should be executed for this?

At this point, it's almost as if you were making this up on purpose to discard the whole idea of a movie if there ever was one, no one can be this naive…

 No.6035

File: 1481475804275.png (174.14 KB, 846x336, owl speaks.png)


 No.6036

>>6034
Do you deny that there is a legal risk, even if it is marginal?

 No.6037

File: 1481477934007.jpg (98.19 KB, 800x592, 3929cb71dccd09b8314f462717….jpg)

>>6036
"Marginal" is kind, thousands of bigger and more corporate franchises got fan films, if you're actually serious about making one you should know this, not only is improbable, but we're also talking about a person who has been MIA for like 8 years.

Granted, if I go to work today a satelite may explode in space and its remains could destroy the office where I work killing me, but I want to go to work today.



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